Author Topic: valve just announced a brand new game  (Read 8378 times)

christ master matthew its like every other thing is the end of the world for you

<valve teases card game thats probably going to be like hearthstone
<"god what has the gaming industry come to"

I believe he means Steam generates enough revenue that Valve has no reason to take risks. They can just sit on currently-existing properties and stay afloat. Also the Half-Life games came out over a decade ago, valve then is different from valve now.

Wasn't that what they were doing when they made the Half-Life episodes, which generated enough revenue?

Anyway, on-topic about the announcement: The trailer shows nothing. You'll be like "no stuff", and yes, I'm stating it for the record. For this to come through, it means the people at Valve approved it somehow. In their leaked employee manual they said something in the lines of "Don't be afraid to ship your idea if you believe it works, even if it turns out to be a commercial failure - we'll learn from our mistake" but unless they end up making a complete turnover with the card game, I see no reason why anyone shouldn't be dissapointed and lose a bit of hope regarding Valve.

This is my usual unpopular opinion, but I'll still play TF2 or Half-Life or any game from Valve after this.

I like dota but not card games.

I'm not a child so I'll just accept this and move on and not cry on the internet.

This post is a few pages deep in the thread but I have to say it's a terrible reaction. For the sake of argument, let's say an 8-year-old kid shows you a crude drawing. You'll say it did a good thing now and that it can do something better in the future, right? But if it turns out to be disappointing on some important subject in its adulthood, you will need to raise some complaints. Don't just sit there and spectate; if you gotta react, you gotta react.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2017, 02:30:21 PM by Marios »

matthew embarrasses himself again wow what a surprise



gotta get them dark chaos... need to raise my chaos stats to win this afk

If you don't have at least 3 Chaos chao, one of each type, you're a filthy casual.

Yeah, let's just piss over the hundreds of developers who work day in, day out to make sure that content is as good as it can be.

I know some of those people you loving prick. I can tell you, making video games is loving hard, and just because you've never done it doesn't mean you can just flick your fingers and turn out a profit. AAA games have to reduce risk to ensure a profit so that Bill in Engineering can pay to feed his family every night.
If hundreds of developers work as hard as they can and they turn out a game that's stuff, that doesn't mean people aren't allowed to say it's stuff because, "Oh, they have families to feed!" Would anyone buy a couch that collapses when you sit on it and the cushions are sold separately because the guy who made it needs money? Quit being a handicap, you can make a good product and become successful or you can make a stuff game and starve to death, just like any other business.
You grew up, and you began to lose your childhood innocence. You saw what gaming really was like, and your way of justifying it was to pretend as though the early 2000s and before were better.

You're an idiot, basically. Worse than the "mindless zombies" you mentioned before.
You're delusional if you think genre redefining games like HL2 which spawned CS, TF2, GMod, and dozens of other games/mods running on Source alone weren't absolutely better than 90% of games released after it. It isn't nostalgia goggles, it is an objective fact. In fact, we'd probably have a lot more doom, quake, and unreal tournament clones if Half Life and Half Life 2 had not stepped up to the plate and changed how people look at shooters.
You represent everything I hate in the modern gaming audience. Self righteous arseholes who want to sell the current state of the industry short because of their rose-tinted goggles that make them believe that their sheltered gaming history was true paradise and that nothing bad ever happened. I'm here to end that delusion, forgeter.

Why don't you go back and play your loving Banjo-Kazooie or Spyro, instead of bitching about it here? Better yet, why don't you loving learn how to code and draw and do it yourself? Surely, with such educated opinions as an intellectual like you has, you must be able to do better, right?

Get forgeted, cunt.
It doesn't take rose-tinted goggles to notice the obvious cash-grabs constantly spawning like that twitch-bait Playerunknown's Battlegrounds and the increasing amount of mobastuff taking off when they don't really do anything special or different besides pander to the lowest common denominator for guaranteed success. It's also noticeable that selling people cosmetics in stuffty little rng crates to make more money off of idiots (though you could argue that CS:GO does this stuff too and I won't defend that) has been trending much more. Overwatch does it, PUBG does it, Quake Champions is going to, etc etc. Let's not forget the practice of on-disc dlc and season pass bullstuff which is literally highway robbery. Again, you seem to ignore these trends for some reason to prove, "It's always been like this, you're blinded by nostalgia!" even though it very loving clearly was not. I don't remember having to shell out 99 cents to get the super nailgun in Quake. I don't remember having to pay up another 30 dollars to get the other half of Half Life. I don't remember having to download a 5 gb patch when I bought a game day 1. The times have changed for the worse and you're a loving moron if you think it's just nostalgia because you clearly have no clue what you're talking about.

If hundreds of developers work as hard as they can and they turn out a game that's stuff, that doesn't mean people aren't allowed to say it's stuff because, "Oh, they have families to feed!" Would anyone buy a couch that collapses when you sit on it and the cushions are sold separately because the guy who made it needs money? Quit being a handicap, you can make a good product and become successful or you can make a stuff game and starve to death, just like any other business.
...yet these stuff games make money. are they really stuff, or are they just not artistic and unique enough games to satisfy your (and other hardcore gamers) palate? are they really stuff because the developers dont care, or are the developers doing what they can rely on to make money?

for all the cash grabs companies make, its for a reason. development costs keep going up as these development studios have to hire more and more people to stay competitive and produce quality work in a short amount of time. they arent hiring temps either, and the money they make has to sustain them long enough till their next release. dlc and microtransactions have been proven time and again to be an effective way to make money - why wouldnt devlopment studios do it to stay afloat or make more money so they can grow?

its like complaining tvs and news sites showing advertisements. ya, theres other ways to make money off of site viewers. but you cant hedge your company on the hope that less-effective ways of making money will be enough, and practically speaking all companies also want to grow as well, and that takes surplus money.



this doesnt mean you have to like stuff products and obvious copies/bandwagoning. it just means you have to accept the fact some people decide to take the easy route to make money, and that it works cause they target people who are not like you. and also you should respect how much time and effort people put into a game. nobody develops a game with the intention for it to come out stuff. they always try their best, and sometimes it just doesnt pan out.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2017, 03:58:34 PM by Conan »

also some alternate points of your post actually are completely wrong:
day 1 patches (and having the ability to patch) are a boon to game developers cause that means they can still release on deadline without suffering massive penalties without having to accept their game is buggy. day1 patches exist cause the time between submitting a game and publication is somewhere between two weeks to a month, and during this time instead of doing nothing the developers can patch the small stuff and make small improvements that they are unsatisfied with, but allowed them to pass cert. this esp goes for console games.

understand that compared to the 2000-2010 game era, the stakes and expendiatures are much higher nowadays. before a 50 person team was considered incredibly large; as of now its not unusual for teams to be 100+ developers and artists for high budget games. in addition the market is a lot bigger as far more people play games now than before, so even a small microtransaction that only 1/100 people buy can net tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars depending on the game. this allows companies to make up for the fact that despite inflation, AAA games still generally cost $60, despite the fact $60 20 years ago would be equivalent to $100 now
« Last Edit: August 11, 2017, 03:56:47 PM by Conan »

...yet these stuff games make money. are they really stuff, or are they just not artistic and unique enough games to satisfy your (and other hardcore gamers) palate? are they really stuff because the developers dont care, or are the developers doing what they can rely on to make money?
Being stuff and not being unique enough are practically the same thing in terms of games. Call of Duty or Battlefield are well made and obviously have time put into them, but once they milk it 5-6 times over it starts to get stale and samey. Obviously AAA companies treat games not as videogames but as a business and do what they must in order to profit. Even nintendo is guilty of it, what with needing to buy amiibos in order to unlock stuff in some games; it's just physical dlc. It is the fault of the consumer that supports with their dollar what is and is not successful.
for all the cash grabs companies make, its for a reason. development costs keep going up as these development studios have to hire more and more people to stay competitive and produce quality work in a short amount of time. they arent hiring temps either, and the money they make has to sustain them long enough till their next release. dlc and microtransactions have been proven time and again to be an effective way to make money - why wouldnt devlopment studios do it to stay afloat or make more money so they can grow?
Development costs skyrocket because they throw away money putting smaller aspects above gameplay itself, like hiring voice actors and advertising the game everywhere possible. Advertising costs big bucks which is why game developers coddle streamers so they get free advertisement. Besides, DLC is fine if it's not cut out from the base game to sell later. Extra content is always great. Microtransactions aren't as fine, mostly depends on the context in which you use it (pay2win vs cosmetics). RNG crates or lootbox microtransactions, however, do not give you a choice of what to get so you throw away money for something you didn't even want. Yet people keep throwing money at it, so companies will keep using it until it doesn't make them money any more, because that's business.
also some alternate points of your post actually are completely wrong:
day 1 patches (and having the ability to patch) are a boon to game developers cause that means they can still release on deadline without suffering massive penalties without having to accept their game is buggy. day1 patches exist cause the time between submitting a game and publication is somewhere between two weeks to a month, and during this time instead of doing nothing the developers can patch the small stuff and make small improvements that they are unsatisfied with, but allowed them to pass cert. this esp goes for console games.
Keyword: SMALL. There's no problem with small patches and small improvements, when it's over loving 5 gigabytes of data it forgets over people who may not have the best internet (or no internet at all!), and there's no excuse for having THAT much to fix besides being rushed by publishers or being lazy. Quit generalizing everything I say and read a little more closely.
understand that compared to the 2000-2010 game era, the stakes and expendiatures are much higher nowadays. before a 50 person team was considered incredibly large; as of now its not unusual for teams to be 100+ developers and artists for high budget games. in addition the market is a lot bigger as far more people play games now than before, so even a small microtransaction that only 1/100 people buy can net tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars depending on the game. this allows companies to make up for the fact that despite inflation, AAA games still generally cost $60, despite the fact $60 20 years ago would be equivalent to $100 now
That's all good and well, but that hardly correlates with anything I said besides mentioning that microtransactions were practically non-existent back then and that they have indeed gotten worse since their inception. I didn't say anything about whether or not they make more or less money with them, I know why companies opt to use them a lot; you explaining something I already know to me accomplishes nothing.

brikichu's argument boils down to "I get unreasonably upset over bad videogames"

Being stuff and not being unique enough are practically the same thing in terms of games. Call of Duty or Battlefield are well made and obviously have time put into them, but once they milk it 5-6 times over it starts to get stale and samey. Obviously AAA companies treat games not as videogames but as a business and do what they must in order to profit. Even nintendo is guilty of it, what with needing to buy amiibos in order to unlock stuff in some games; it's just physical dlc. It is the fault of the consumer that supports with their dollar what is and is not successful.
game development is a business. AAA titles have millions of dollars at risk and you have to prove to investors that it's worth the dough they're slamming down on it. indie studios and hobbyist devs have the advantage of being small-scale and low-cost enough to take an idea and run with it, often regardless the risk or time investment required, but when you have that kind of money at stake and a massive studio that needs to keep its good name, you're going to have a hard time convincing investors to trust lofty ambitions over proven design. i'm mentioning this because you seem to be framing this as studios failing to understand something fundamental about game design, but reality is that you just have to make a lot of sacrifices when money is on the line, and often that means shedding your grand ideas and settling for what's realistic and what can be built from pieces you already have. studios honestly just don't have the resources to build or rethink their games from the ground up every time.

Development costs skyrocket because they throw away money putting smaller aspects above gameplay itself, like hiring voice actors and advertising the game everywhere possible. Advertising costs big bucks which is why game developers coddle streamers so they get free advertisement.
development costs are skyrocketing for a lot of complex reasons other than mismanagement of resources. games are becoming bigger and better, and more employees are necessary to divide tasks up more efficiently in order to sustain this growth, which costs money. we could never make modern games with the same budgets of games made ten years ago, because the economy and industry is always changing and growing. as game dev becomes a bigger and bigger industry, the scale of project that people are willing to fund will grow as well. advertisement is necessary to make sure your game is well-exposed and hyped up, so that people will actually buy your game. it costs money, but when you've already dropped millions on funding a game, you simply can't afford to let it go unknown.

Besides, DLC is fine if it's not cut out from the base game to sell later. Extra content is always great.
it pretty much never is. i'm sure this can vary greatly from studio to studio, but dlc is often made separate from main game development with the intent to be sold as dlc. maybe sometimes a certain part of a game doesn't quite work out within the time frame of ordinary development and that odd case ends up being delayed and sold later, but i doubt this makes up any significant portion of dlc. sometimes, certain roles in game dev may have nothing to do, and you're wasting money having them sit around twiddling their thumbs. with the onset of digital distribution, it's become much easier to assign teams to small content expansion projects, maybe just to make sure they have work to do or to train new employees or something, because you can sell that tiny amount content and justify the cost. and it doesn't take anything away from the main development. it doesn't make any business sense to deliberately make your game worse, because if your game is bad, people just won't buy it.

Microtransactions aren't as fine, mostly depends on the context in which you use it (pay2win vs cosmetics). RNG crates or lootbox microtransactions, however, do not give you a choice of what to get so you throw away money for something you didn't even want. Yet people keep throwing money at it, so companies will keep using it until it doesn't make them money any more, because that's business.
there's nothing inherently wrong with microtransactions. they help to continuously fund development and they're a godsend for modern free-to-play models that would otherwise have very few resources to work with and provide very little incentive for investment. you can certainly implement microtransactions in a way that hurts your game, just as with any design decision, but that doesn't mean they're bad design or bad business. loot box type things are a pretty good example of a skinner box, and you can argue one way or another about whether that's a good thing, but either way it can be implemented in a humane manner. i think overwatch does a pretty decent job at this, at least where i'm at, because you have plenty of opportunities to get loot boxes through fair in-game means, but they let you pay if you really want more. but it's all cosmetic, so it doesn't really have a massive impact on gameplay, it just feels nice for the player, and that's worth something.

Keyword: SMALL. There's no problem with small patches and small improvements, when it's over loving 5 gigabytes of data it forgets over people who may not have the best internet (or no internet at all!), and there's no excuse for having THAT much to fix besides being rushed by publishers or being lazy.
i think conan understated the time period between finish a game and the game going to market. in reality, i'm pretty sure for AAA titles it can often be more like six months or more. that's a lot of down time. (btw this is where a lot of DLC, including a lot of that dreaded day-one DLC, is made or started as well, after the game is already done) the reason you need all this time is because you need to advertise the game, give reviewers a chance to play it, etc. during this time, you're also manufacturing physical copies and shipping them all over the world. the problem is that you can't modify the data on all those disks after they're produced. in game dev, problems often come up in unexpected places. sometimes you've worked on a part of your game for months and suddenly you add a feature and everything breaks. sometimes you're relying on a third party to deliver on a feature or a bit of code that never quite makes it to the deadline. stuff happens and sometimes it's hard to fix. it doesn't just happen because people are lazy, it happens because game dev is forgetin hard. it's not unlikely that studios are often put in a position where they would have to choose between fixing a major bug or implementing a major/minor feature. being able to digitally distribute a magic fix to a vast majority of your player base is loving phenomenal, and it lets studios breathe while they crunch to do the best they can with the time they've got. so please don't be upset with a studio for fixing their game, be glad that they have the tech to do it, because it lets them focus on making better games.

brikichu's argument boils down to "I get unreasonably upset over bad videogames"
fantastic input

lol ya'll a bunch of nerds