Poll

I have posted a possibility for the election outcome in 6 variations. Choose your preferred below.

A. https://i.imgur.com/F6TVPLY.png
8 (34.8%)
B. https://i.imgur.com/uuRmNcE.png
3 (13%)
C. https://i.imgur.com/JK2OSsA.png
1 (4.3%)
D. https://i.imgur.com/sl6MVas.png
2 (8.7%)
E. https://i.imgur.com/K1GHlD3.png
2 (8.7%)
F. https://i.imgur.com/br3Sp06.png
7 (30.4%)

Total Members Voted: 23

Author Topic: U.S.A. Politics Thread  (Read 235429 times)

ok so a trans person yelling at gamestop staff discredits every scientific article in existence? you know trans people are more common than red heads right? do you deny red heads exist?
no i never said anything about your 'scientific' articles, but saying that trans people are more common than red heads is just bullstuff and you know it. although at the rate society is going downhill i wouldn't be surprised if that became fact in the near future

so, back to the bathroom thing is that or is it not a sign of a mental disorder
« Last Edit: October 28, 2020, 03:24:16 PM by Goth77 »

no i never said anything about your 'scientific' articles, but saying that trans people are more common than red heads is just bullstuff and you know it

so, back to the bathroom thing is that or is it not a sign of a mental disorder
it literally isn't bullstuff, estimates puts them at 0.6% to 2% of the population, im sorry that you are literally denying reality

and if you think that biological love is "the end all be all" well its about the same, 2% ish of the population are interlove (they dont have XY or XX) chromosomes.

in comparison, redheads float around 1.5% of the population, which in some estimates, is under the trans or interlove population.

The reason you don't "see" them or hear of them is literally just because you don't loving scan someones DNA everytime you meet them, so they pass as a different gender or most of the time are trans.

you literally just pivot from actual hard data with "you just know it" so i have no intention of taking your queries seriously
« Last Edit: October 28, 2020, 03:26:51 PM by Aide33 »

it literally isn't bullstuff, estimates puts them at 0.6% to 2% of the population, im sorry that you are literally denying reality

Quote from: The Williams Institute
0.6% of adults identify as transgender.

Quote from: Google
between 1% and 2%, or 70 to 140 million people around the world, have red hair


you literally posted one estimate.  can you read???

i said:
estimates puts them at 0.6% to 2% of the population
estimateSSS

as in, there are SOME estimates that put them at 2%, no one estimate is correct 100% correct because its impossible to count all of these people.

exactly all estimates so no one really knows right? Also 0.6% - 2% is a wider range of margin error than 1% to 2%, at least you know at the very minimum there are more red heads than transgender people

that's the hill you're going to die on goth? what a loser

exactly all estimates so no one really knows right? Also 0.6% - 2% is a wider range of margin error than 1% to 2%, at least you know at the very minimum there are more red heads than transgender people
ok this is arguing semantics but you are right, regardless, the point i was trying to make is that:

since the populations are comparable in size why is one treated as such a small group of the population that they shouldnt be taken into account whereas the other is just another normal haircolour.

society sees being a red head as normal whereas being trans is like: "no you NEED to be one or the other"

and in case you say "gender isnt real, love is" the interlove population is bigger than trans people from what i can gather

just like hair colour, gender and love are both things that are infinitely mutable on a spectrum and there isn't a true answer as to which "paths" are the right one and science proves this

« Last Edit: October 28, 2020, 03:44:59 PM by Aide33 »

that's the hill you're going to die on goth? what a loser
woah big guy, didn't mean to hurt your feelings. I'm sorry, who are you again?

ok this is arguing semantics but you are right
Thank you for acknowledging that

the point i was trying to make is that:

since the populations are comparable in size why is one treated as such a small group of the population that they shouldnt be taken into account whereas the other is just another normal haircolour.

society sees being a red head as normal whereas being trans is like: "no you NEED to be one or the other"

and in case you say "gender isnt real, love is" the interlove population is bigger than trans people from what i can gather
Right I understand the point you were trying to make just try to use a better example next time lol, the red head brown townogy doesn't really work too well since you can easily change your hair color, not so much your gender

woah big guy, didn't mean to hurt your feelings. I'm sorry, who are you again?
Thank you for acknowledging that
Right I understand the point you were trying to make just try to use a better example next time lol, the red head brown townogy doesn't really work too well since you can easily change your hair color, not so much your gender
i mean its easier to change your gender than your love, as your gender is purely based on how you present yourself, what you wear, your haircut, etc.

people arent forced to like, dye their hair because of social pressure or assign to one of the most common hair colours.

but like yeah i understand what you are saying

i mean its easier to change your gender than your love, as your gender is purely based on how you present yourself, what you wear, your haircut, etc.

people arent forced to like, dye their hair because of social pressure or assign to one of the most common hair colours.

but like yeah i understand what you are saying
right i guess i should have said "change their love" since gender is measured (according to google) as masculinity or feminism

hey some people feel the need to dye their hair to fit in. my ex dyed her hair all the time to get attention from others and fit in with a certain group of friends

right i guess i should have said "change their love" since gender is measured (according to google) as masculinity or feminism

hey some people feel the need to dye their hair to fit in. my ex dyed her hair all the time to get attention from others and fit in with a certain group of friends
i mean hey, i havent checked the numbers but im sure it happens and it sucks

it doesn't matter, my point stands as: where do we draw the line in terms of "how good" someone's mental health is.

Literally every single study in this link goes against current scientific evidence or the scientists responsible for the study says their research do not come to the same conclusions than the article

For example, one of the prime sources in the article this study: [1]

Here is the author of the study responding to the article: [2]

The claim that gender transition isnt an effective way to treat gender dysphoria is entirely untrue based on scientific consensus.

For example, an ENOURMOUS meta brown townysis from Cornell [3] looked at 55 different studies on the subject and came to the conclusion that:
  • Of 55 studies, 51 indicated transitioning has a positive effect on the mental health of transgender people and 4 indicated it had mixed or no results.
  • ZERO studies indicated gender transitioning has negative results

Another meta brown townysis by (Murad et al.) [4] looked at 28 studies on transition:
  • 80% of individuals reported significant improvement in dysphoria
  • 78% of individuals reported significant improvement in psychological symptoms
  • 72% of individuals reported significant improvement in loveual function
  • Positive results across the board, EVEN IN 15-YEAR FOLLOWUPS


This isn't even all the scientific literature that I have on hand for this but I hope you understand my point.


Someone literally didn't read the study they are quoting! It seems like you don't even have the same number as the source! [5]

Here's the actual numbers (overall):


8% overall have detransitioned!! alarming right? wait... but why did they?


WAIT, looks like a large portion of those people who detransitioned did so because of... social pressure? and not actually because they weren't trans!!!

On top of that, the actual number of people who actually detransitionned was...*drumroll*... 0.4% of the overall sample!

Wow 0.4% thats insanely low compared to the success rate of a lot of other medical procedures right?


i don't care if they are active duty or retired.

the fact of the matter is, every person that is/was in the military should have health care and trans healthcare is health care. the amount of trans people is incomparable to the amount of men taking viagra and by some estimates it would only amount to like 8 mil a year. I'm simply illustrating the point that it is such a cheap amount compared to a luxury men take all the time, therefore it's not an argument to not allow them in the military because its "too expensive" like you said.

There is a lot of research about on hormone replacement my guy, it actually alleviates the symptoms of disphoria. Do you want me to dig up the forgetton of science that agrees with me again?

Please, for the love of god, read and parse these studies yourself. Don't just believe that random internet articles (which are not the primary sources) are right about their interpretation next time.

Sources:
[1] https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0016885
[2] http://transadvocate.com/fact-check-study-shows-transition-makes-trans-people-suicidal_n_15483.htm
[3] https://whatweknow.inequality.cornell.edu/topics/lgbt-equality/what-does-the-scholarly-research-say-about-the-well-being-of-transgender-people/
[4] https://sci-hub.se/https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.1365-2265.2009.03625.x
[5] https://transequality.org/sites/default/files/docs/usts/USTS-Full-Report-Dec17.pdf
Where do we draw the line? Pretty simple answer: People who are suicidal/depressed/unable or struggling to function as a normal person in society.

Also yeah I did read the article, literally says in the first sentence "The 2015 U.S. Transgender Survey claims that 11% of female respondents regret surgery enough to change back to their original love.".

"Transitioning was too hard for them" doesn't sound like social pressure to me lol.

Also I never said it was too expensive, I said hormones are more expensive and good luck passing some law/bill that makes the military delegate some of their funds to hormones. Stop purposely misinterpreting me. I don't care that hormones "alleviate symptoms of gender dysphoria", I said hormones in themselves have side effects and often mess with emotional state.

De-transitioning and regretting their loveual reassignment surgery are not the same thing, good job misinterpreting me again.

"I don't care if they are active duty or retired" well you should cause it's relevant to the point. Troons aren't good for the military and a large portion aren't mentally stable enough to be suited for it. Stop pretending everyone is equal and capable when they are not.

"Transitioning was too hard for them" doesn't sound like social pressure to me lol.
um...i think he was referring to the 8 or so other reasons that are in fact social pressure and made up a much larger percentage overall

what is happening guys can someone explain it

Where do we draw the line? Pretty simple answer: People who are suicidal/depressed/unable or struggling to function as a normal person in society.

Ok so literally advocate for psych evaluations, not if the person is trans LOL

I don't understand why the forget you have to discriminate against a population that has a bunch of people who normally function in society. The fact that a large portion of them are bullied into mental health problems doesn't justify excluding the vast majority of them. Their transness doesn't imply they have mental health problems. 40% doesn't imply 100%, and we shouldn't treat the 60% as such.

This is the same logic the kool kids klub used for segregation, quoting bunk IQ statistics about black people saying that most of them are dumber therefore unfit for higher education (which is untrue and widely debunked). Even if it was true, it doesn't imply we should treat them all differently.

Also yeah I did read the article, literally says in the first sentence "The 2015 U.S. Transgender Survey claims that 11% of female respondents regret surgery enough to change back to their original love.".
Again, can you loving read? That lines source in that article is the study I posted. You implied that 11% female respondent regret is the same as the overall regret. I was clarifying that the "regret" is overwhelmingly from social factors they face related to their transition and not the transition itself. It's abundantly clear if you read the report that people don't transition and then regret it horribly because they aren't trans or deranged.

I don't care that hormones "alleviate symptoms of gender dysphoria", I said hormones in themselves have side effects and often mess with emotional state.
Literally every other loving medicine forgets with you in some way dude, anything from birth control (which a lot of people take regularly) to insulin.

Do diabetics and women get yeeted out from the military? Literally no, because we scan for people who don't pass the psych test instead of not accepting ALL women or ALL diabetics. They are evaluated on a case-by-case basis not on their conditions or how they where born.

De-transitioning and regretting their loveual reassignment surgery are not the same thing, good job misinterpreting me again.
You still haven't read the report, I talked about detransitionning because you brought up regret:
Quote
Transitioning vs. transitioned aren't much different either, both are still highly unstable. And more than 10 percent of MTF transgenders (a majority of the transgender community) regret their gender reassignment surgery entirely.
You implied that since people regret their transition, they are mentally unstable and I showed that your source for that points out that people regret it because of social pressure. To further prove my point, I go on to say that detransitionning is absurdly rare.

You're main source for that argument doesn't support your claim.
"I don't care if they are active duty or retired" well you should cause it's relevant to the point.
I said "I don't care if they are active duty or retired" because my argument is:
Quote
"Overall, trans people wouldn't cost the military much compared to spending they already do"
and they already pay 84 million for viagra. If trans people are reincluded in the military, they will pay for their hormones even if they aren't serving and that amount still comes out to a drop in the bucket.
Troons aren't good for the military and a large portion aren't mentally stable enough to be suited for it. Stop pretending everyone is equal and capable when they are not.
I am literally not saying everyone is equal.

you are indirectly making this argument by saying every trans person is equally mentally ill, which is undoutably not the case. you are painting a wide brush to all of the trans community.

if you actually cared about "having military members that are mentally fit to serve" you would advocate for psych evaluations and not blanket bans on entire swaths of the population and you wouldn't be explicitly calling them slurs.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2020, 12:19:18 PM by Aide33 »