Poll

I have posted a possibility for the election outcome in 6 variations. Choose your preferred below.

A. https://i.imgur.com/F6TVPLY.png
8 (34.8%)
B. https://i.imgur.com/uuRmNcE.png
3 (13%)
C. https://i.imgur.com/JK2OSsA.png
1 (4.3%)
D. https://i.imgur.com/sl6MVas.png
2 (8.7%)
E. https://i.imgur.com/K1GHlD3.png
2 (8.7%)
F. https://i.imgur.com/br3Sp06.png
7 (30.4%)

Total Members Voted: 23

Author Topic: U.S.A. Politics Thread  (Read 255808 times)

the US certainly isn't the beacon of peace when it comes to warfare. after all, the country remains the only one in the world to have used nuclear weapons against human targets, not just once but twice.
not to butt into the conversation since i currently haven't read the discourse between you two, but i am interested: whats your take on this, strategically? do you see it as justified or no? im of the mindset it was a necessary evil and was softened by Americas immediate relief efforts to build back Japan. i can understand that being seen as either a good or bad thing, since the reasoning could be debated that it was because even America was surprised by their own destruction, or because they saw it as an opportunity to shoe horn in their western hegemony, it still seems like it was a wildly successful effort as Japan was flourishing by the 80s per my understanding. they definitely had Americas youth by the balls with their own cultural influence. IDK, just kinda interested on your thoughts there.

not to butt into the conversation since i currently haven't read the discourse between you two, but i am interested: whats your take on this, strategically? do you see it as justified or no? im of the mindset it was a necessary evil and was softened by Americas immediate relief efforts to build back Japan. i can understand that being seen as either a good or bad thing, since the reasoning could be debated that it was because even America was surprised by their own destruction, or because they saw it as an opportunity to shoe horn in their western hegemony, it still seems like it was a wildly successful effort as Japan was flourishing by the 80s per my understanding. they definitely had Americas youth by the balls with their own cultural influence. IDK, just kinda interested on your thoughts there.
nuclear weapons are universally destructive and therefore there's never a good place or time to use them. nobody can evacuate an entire city and all its surrounding wildlife and world heritage sites quick enough to ensure a safe non-casualty nuclear strike. the cleanup of contaminated soil and wildlife ends up costing billions of dollars more than the bombs themselves.

i would like to say that fat man and little boy had more application on the front lines, where they would've killed significantly less civilians and been more effective against enemy military. however, every country during that phase of WW2 was war-weary and prolonged conflict was no longer on the table. the US government manufactured the first weapon of mass destruction, and during that time, use it or lose it was the MO. they invested years of resources into the manhattan project and they were not prepared to stick the bombs in a bunker somewhere to gather dust. it had to be used, either in hiroshima, nagasaki, or somewhere else.

well it didn't 'have' to be used. i just think that if you were to step into the shoes of the people who authorized the strike, the options were limited. the entire project was designed with the sole purpose of ending the war, the question on their plate was where they would drop the bomb in order to best end the war. they chose two cities of majority civilian targets and completed their objective. in an ideal world, they could've picked better, less heinous targets and still achieved their objective.

you ask a great question. i think the victims of the first two bombings would be the only people on the planet with answers worth listening to. sadly, most were vaporized instantly. so in light of that, i do have some deep gratitude towards the super lethal hellfire ninja missile, which instead of vaporizing an entire gene line, only kills one person in their vehicle. surgical strikes have their application, and in a modern war with so many people on the ground doing different things, it is applied well. hopefully, nuclear weapons are never used on human targets again
« Last Edit: August 26, 2022, 11:14:48 AM by PhantOS »

there also aren't many places available to drop a multi-million dollar WMD in 1945. using it on the frontlines would've been the go-to strategic decision for the bomb, but there was always the high chance that the bombers carrying the weapon would be shot down by japanese planes and anti-air. if the bomb were recovered in the wreckage by hostiles, the US military would lose every advantage they had worked for years to gain. had they had more time to study the effects of radiation on the environment and the serious ramifications of Flash Mob in that scale, the bomb would've been dropped elsewhere. every day they spent deciding, allied and axis soldiers & civilians were dying by the tens of thousands. it wasn't a necessary evil, it was an unnecessary evil furthered by the hundreds of other unnecessary evils committed by every armed force at the time.

hopefully, nuclear weapons are never used on human targets again
its hard for me to imagine such a thing would ever happen in our life time. we've come close (cuban missle crCIA close), but i think world leaders understand the consequence they face at using nukes. hiroshima and nagasaki definitely gave the world a picture of what nuclear warfare would really be like for everyone on earth, not just those on the frontline. because of that image, i dont think any currently living world leader would entertain that being a stain on their history or conscience. for now at least.

honestly, i don't think human beings are mentally competent enough individually or collectively to handle that much potential energy. any organism that has the potential to act self-destructively and irrationally at any moment cannot safely handle nuclear weapons. it would be awesome if we, as an organic species, recognized how flawed not just we are, but every other living creature is, and made the decision to never allow anyone or anything to activate a nuclear scenario.

the people that studied, invented and designed the first nuclear weapons are no longer alive today. they've left behind a technology capable of wiping out most life on earth, and a generation of people who don't fully understand how to control it and never will. eventually, nuclear weapons will be overshadowed by more dangerous and efficient methods of Flash Mob, but the ramifications and decisions behind it will be virtually the same. it will take someone with the power to annihilate all their enemies at once to choose absolute peace and bear the responsibility of de-escalation. sadly, not every person on the planet has the mental faculties to choose selfless peace over selfish conquest.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2022, 12:10:41 PM by PhantOS »

honestly i can't wait for the day wars are settled in a match of fortnite or arma 3

honestly, i don't think human beings are mentally competent enough individually or collectively to handle that much potential energy. any organism that has the potential to act self-destructively and irrationally at any moment cannot safely handle nuclear weapons. it would be awesome if we, as an organic species, recognized how flawed not just we are, but every other living creature is, and made the decision to never allow anyone or anything to activate a nuclear scenario.
im willing to agree with this. i find myself acknowledging how often it seems people not only want to ignore but outright reject the animalistic qualities humans still very much have. it seems some evolutionary quality with have to be put in place to cull the richard swinging and the borderline loveual prowess that being the "top dog" stands for, if that makes sense.

the people that studied, invented and designed the first nuclear weapons are no longer alive today. they've left behind a technology capable of wiping out most life on earth, and a generation of people who don't fully understand how to control it and never will.
the forgeted up thing is that they knew this too. they knew exactly what they created, what it was capable of, and who exactly they were giving their legacy to. that had to be a thought on oppenheimers mind as he was giving his "now i am become death" speech. they probably died thinking the world would by scorched by now because of them.

honestly i can't wait for the day wars are settled in a match of fortnite or arma 3
honestly as gay as that sounds on a world stage you'd think they'd be down lol. i love to think that had to be suggested in some semi-serious/joking way at least once in the war room.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2022, 12:36:10 PM by mod-man »

i agree with your opinion on the outcomes of armed conflict, but i disagree on the reasons. armies tend to bring their most expensive ordinance and the most well-funded operators of said ordinance. however, moving expensive people and weapons through a warzone is a logistics  nightmare, and keeping them operational and combat-effective is difficult. the drone strikes we hear the most about in the US are the ones that target high-value leaders and end up killing civilians, but the ones that occur most frequently are supporting strikes and strafing runs for ground troops under fire.

during an exchange of combat, the situation may rapidly deteriorate. if soldiers are unable to maintain fire superiority and begin taking excessive casualties, air support and artillery become necessary. this is the main application of our drone program and also where the most civilian casualties end up being caused by. every second troops are on the ground and in the air, they risk dying at any moment. the air force is especially vulnerable, and portable air-to-surface missiles (even small arms fire) can destroy million dollar drones and choppers flying lower to the ground. under these stuffty conditions, soldiers' decision-making skills are disrupted, and the chances of civilian casualties climb by the second.

none of this makes it right, and there is no real excuse for civilian death. it also raises the important point that nobody would have to die if the army wasn't there in the first place. once an armed force arrives, the question is no longer 'why are we here' but 'how can we achieve our objective as fast as possible with as little casualties to our men, our enemies and civilians as possible.' this is where it helps to have a dedicated plan to minimizing losses of everyone involved.

the US certainly isn't the beacon of peace when it comes to warfare. after all, the country remains the only one in the world to have used nuclear weapons against human targets, not just once but twice. operation desert storm was a hugely successful operation compared to the nuclear bombings and the korean and vietnam wars, and the decision to knock out iraq's air superiority and comms from day one likely prevented millions of people from dying. an unsuccessful first strike would've meant that coalition troops would have to bring heavier armor into the cities and more civilians would've been displaced and killed. the decision to stay in the middle east and maintain a presence is what cost the people of iraq many more lives than necessary, and is where the US begins to look like an incompetent russia-like invader. many of the problems that remain today are directly the result of US intervention, but these losses would've been much greater had the show of force invasion failed.
more iraqi civilians died because of desert storm than any amount of people have died due to warfare since vietnam-- topped only by the rwandan genocide only a few years later-- not even to include the US's role on both sides of the iran-iraq war. you are horribly mistaken with these bloomberg takes

not to butt into the conversation since i currently haven't read the discourse between you two, but i am interested: whats your take on this, strategically? do you see it as justified or no? im of the mindset it was a necessary evil and was softened by Americas immediate relief efforts to build back Japan. i can understand that being seen as either a good or bad thing, since the reasoning could be debated that it was because even America was surprised by their own destruction, or because they saw it as an opportunity to shoe horn in their western hegemony, it still seems like it was a wildly successful effort as Japan was flourishing by the 80s per my understanding. they definitely had Americas youth by the balls with their own cultural influence. IDK, just kinda interested on your thoughts there.
there is no better case study on it than this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCRTgtpC-Go it is long but worth the watch, it sheds thoroughly so much light on the total ineptitude and carelessness of every world government at that time, with primary sources cited constantly.

for a sneak-peak preview, the reason kyoto wasn't targeted is because one of the white house executives took a vacation there with his wife once and "thought it was nice". truman didn't even legally authorize the second strike. japan offered a conditional surrender, whereby the only condition would be that the emperor were preserved, but the US responded that they wanted an unconditional surrender. japan gave this unconditional surrender after the bombs were dropped, and the US preserved the emperor anyway. (the US then gave japan's collaborationist regime administrative power over newly-partitioned south korea, where this same government had killed 500,000 civilians just 1 year prior)

more iraqi civilians died because of desert storm than any amount of people have died due to warfare since vietnam-- topped only by the rwandan genocide only a few years later-- not even to include the US's role on both sides of the iran-iraq war. you are horribly mistaken with these bloomberg takes
sounds like i need to do more research then. do you have any good articles that discuss the casualties of iraq war?

(the US then gave japan's collaborationist regime administrative power over newly-partitioned south korea, where this same government had killed 500,000 civilians just 1 year prior)
japan's presence in manchuria during and after ww2 was always dangerous

hot take i think we should kill everyone

hot take i think we should kill everyone
finally somebody understands


Nah but billionaires should all have bounties on their heads where the killer receives 1/4th of their wealth and the rest goes to schools and taxes