The Gas prices...

[Muffinmix]

http://www.windpower.org/en/tour/econ/index.htm
http://nuclearinfo.net/Nuclearpower/WebHomeCostOfNuclearPower

Projected Costs
http://www.iea.org/Textbase/npsum/ElecCostSUM.pdf

Nuclear costs = 30 to 50 USD/MWh
Wind costs = 45 to 140+ USD/MWh

I guess Nuclear wins money-wise, but there's a reason they aren't all over the place and wind farms are gaining popularity. Investment costs.

Also, I've said this before, but the first guy who to eventually create a heat to electric converting material will be loving rich. Think about it, your refrigerator would cool things down without needing to supply energy. Radiators to cool down car engines? What a waste of energy, why not convert that heat back into electricity? Of course this only applies for combustion engines, fuel cell powered engines only produce a small bit of heat.

It's impossible to convert 100% heat of a system into electricity, since heat energy is the least organized type of energy, but it is still possible to convert some of the heat energy into electricity on large scales (steam turbines). This is grossly inefficient, as heat loss is astronomical. Using nanomaterials to do the job instead of a very large system would be the best alternative, the plus side is that you could fit this material into allot of places where heat is being exhausted, and then convert that heat into electricity.

The material would need to be fairly awesome however,
- Needs to stay intact in high temperatures while converting heat, or while the circuit is Off
- Must last a long time
- Needs to be efficient, cost material vs electricity produced (That gold sandwich one being researched is a nice idea except it's made out of loving gold)
- Needs to work in low temperatures (bonus)

It would solve allot of heat emission problems and I hope more research will be undertaken for this.

[Ad Bot]

[Falco00102]

$2.36 was mine just a minuet ago.

[Otis Da HousKat]

I'm going to point out the obvious here and inform you that car engines get really hot. Too hot, in fact, to be cooled effectively by anything but the huge mass of air that flows over it.

Heat syncs and coolant pipes wouldn't be efficient enough to warrant their extra weight and complexity.

Adding wind turbines to cars has already been suggested. Following the basic laws of thermodynamics it is a zero gain and loss system. The energy generated from a turbine on the car would be offset by the increased aerodynamic drag which would put more strain on the engine. All you would really be doing is adding another inefficient system onto an already overburdened vehicle.

I'm afraid I don't know enough about alternators to comment on your suggestion, but I imagine there are similar reasons for why they don't do it in the way you mentioned.

Car manufacturers have no compelling reason to change what they design because people still keep on buying this years model even though it is just last year's model with a DVD player added in. Vote with your dollar.

Not being able to cool it enough was my only concern with what I thought of. The amount of piping needed would probably make the inside really messy too. Oh well.

The radiator is still huge efficiency drain on the car. The air being forced over the engine doesn't actually cool the parts directly. It pushes the hot air out allowing more to flow in. I can't think of any other way that would allow more heat to be drawn out of the engine itself rather than just pushing hot air out though.

I don't see any reason(that I know of) why my alternator suggestion wouldn't be possible. The alternator already does what I suggested, it charges the battery in your car. Without it your battery wouldn't last long at all. I've done some basic research on super capacitors, and the sources I've read(not just Wikipedia) say they have higher energy potential than current lead-acid batteries, are smaller, lighter, and the only limit on their charge rate is the heating of the conductors. The main downsides being that it would be costly to implement in new vehicles and if something goes wrong in the capacitor they can be highly explosive.

Unless there's some energy conservation thermodynamic principle I'm overlooking again, the alternator could charge those capacitors with the energy it's not normally using and in turn the capacitors could help propel the vehicle. You could also do that with regenerative braking, but I don't know much about that.

It would cost a lot of time and money to research ideas like these, but we've already been over why that is such a crock.

[Rughugger]

Not being able to cool it enough was my only concern with what I thought of. The amount of piping needed would probably make the inside really messy too. Oh well.

The radiator is still huge efficiency drain on the car. The air being forced over the engine doesn't actually cool the parts directly. It pushes the hot air out allowing more to flow in. I can't think of any other way that would allow more heat to be drawn out of the engine itself rather than just pushing hot air out though.

I don't see any reason(that I know of) why my alternator suggestion wouldn't be possible. The alternator already does what I suggested, it charges the battery in your car. Without it your battery wouldn't last long at all. I've done some basic research on super capacitors, and the sources I've read(not just Wikipedia) say they have higher energy potential than current lead-acid batteries, are smaller, lighter, and the only limit on their charge rate is the heating of the conductors. The main downsides being that it would be costly to implement in new vehicles and if something goes wrong in the capacitor they can be highly explosive.

Unless there's some energy conservation thermodynamic principle I'm overlooking again, the alternator could charge those capacitors with the energy it's not normally using and in turn the capacitors could help propel the vehicle. You could also do that with regenerative braking, but I don't know much about that.

It would cost a lot of time and money to research ideas like these, but we've already been over why that is such a crock.

Exactly. With all the time the government has wasted giving excuses as to why it'd take too long and too much money, we could have been well into if not completed that said research. Yet hey, when the banks need bailing out, "Oh here's a stuff load of money and plenty of time for ya all."

[Otis Da HousKat]

Exactly. With all the time the government has wasted giving excuses as to why it'd take too long and too much money, we could have been well into if not completed that said research. Yet hey, when the banks need bailing out, "Oh here's a stuff load of money and plenty of time for ya all."

The banks are all for the theory of capitalism when they are able to sucker people in to high interest loans and screw people over. As soon as that comes back to bite them in the ass they go cry to daddy for help so they don't fail.

Let them, it's capitalism.

[Rughugger]

The banks are all for the theory of capitalism when they are able to sucker people in to high interest loans and screw people over. As soon as that comes back to bite them in the ass they go cry to daddy for help so they don't fail.

Let them, it's capitalism.

Not saying that the system itself is what's the problem, Just that the fact that it's easy for the government to hand out cash like that when they can clearly see that there are other things that need to be addressed as well and don't by making up excuses.

[Otis Da HousKat]

Not saying that the system itself is what's the problem, Just that the fact that it's easy for the government to hand out cash like that when they can clearly see that there are other things that need to be addressed as well and don't by making up excuses.

Status quo?

The people doing most of that bullstuff are pretty well off and probably don't see any reason for such a paradigm shift in our current energy system.

In a perfect system politicians would go into power to serve the demands of the people that elected them, not to further their own wealth or agendas. But we are all humans, it sucks, but I doubt many would be able to constrain themselves from such behavior given the opportunity.

[Rughugger]

Status quo?

The people doing most of that bullstuff are pretty well off and probably don't see any reason for such a paradigm shift in our current energy system.

In a perfect system politicians would go into power to serve the demands of the people that elected them, not to further their own wealth or agendas. But we are all humans, it sucks, but I doubt many would be able to constrain themselves from such behavior given the opportunity.

I'm sure there are a few individuals who started out like that, but under the pressure of the rest of the flock beating down on them, they realized that it was either serve their needs or be removed from office. I don't doubt that it's all standard practice to keep their own interests from being broadsided by some uppity Harvey Dent like guy along the line.

[Otis Da HousKat]

I'm sure there are a few individuals who started out like that, but under the pressure of the rest of the flock beating down on them, they realized that it was either serve their needs or be removed from office. I don't doubt that it's all standard practice to keep their own interests from being broadsided by some uppity Harvey Dent like guy along the line.

My brother wrote a pretty interesting paper about a computer run government last year. It was only a basic idea but it make decisions by sorting out the needs and demands of every group of people in the country and choosing the best combination. Way more complex to implement than it is to think of, but it was still neat.

Some jack ass in his class complained that the computer would go rogue and kill humanity. The computer idea he had didn't involve some sentient AI, and why would the computer need to take control? It would already have control.



My mom pays for my gasoline. ;D

I have a pretty fuel efficient car(that I bought myself) so it's not that much per week. My parents view school as my full time job so they don't really mind seeing me getting an education while they pay for my expenses.

I'm in school for 35 hours a week, 25 of it actually in classes. Then there is the time spent outside of school doing work. Unlike high school you actually spend that class time learning and doing work.

D:

[Isjix]

The lowest i've seen was $3.19 here.

[Reactor Worker]

http://www.windpower.org/en/tour/econ/index.htm
http://nuclearinfo.net/Nuclearpower/WebHomeCostOfNuclearPower

Projected Costs
http://www.iea.org/Textbase/npsum/ElecCostSUM.pdf

Nuclear costs = 30 to 50 USD/MWh
Wind costs = 45 to 140+ USD/MWh

I guess Nuclear wins money-wise, but there's a reason they aren't all over the place and wind farms are gaining popularity. Investment costs.

Also, I've said this before, but the first guy who to eventually create a heat to electric converting material will be loving rich. Think about it, your refrigerator would cool things down without needing to supply energy. Radiators to cool down car engines? What a waste of energy, why not convert that heat back into electricity? Of course this only applies for combustion engines, fuel cell powered engines only produce a small bit of heat.

It's impossible to convert 100% heat of a system into electricity, since heat energy is the least organized type of energy, but it is still possible to convert some of the heat energy into electricity on large scales (steam turbines). This is grossly inefficient, as heat loss is astronomical. Using nanomaterials to do the job instead of a very large system would be the best alternative, the plus side is that you could fit this material into allot of places where heat is being exhausted, and then convert that heat into electricity.

The material would need to be fairly awesome however,
- Needs to stay intact in high temperatures while converting heat, or while the circuit is Off
- Must last a long time
- Needs to be efficient, cost material vs electricity produced (That gold sandwich one being researched is a nice idea except it's made out of loving gold)
- Needs to work in low temperatures (bonus)

It would solve allot of heat emission problems and I hope more research will be undertaken for this.

Already made. Still subject to the same laws of thermodynamics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermophotovoltaic

All machines that we have made, from heatsinks on computers to jet turbines, are all subject to the laws of thermodynamics. To oversimplify; no machine can exceed 40% efficiency. Of the energy that enters a system, only 40% of that energy can converted into a useful force (such as movement) while the other remaining total is wasted. Few machines truly even get close to 40%, the closest are the turbines used to generate power in various powerplants.

After examining your alternator idea further, I think you have a point. As long as you're not adding further load to the engine and the battery is still fully charged then I don't see why you couldn't use the power generated to propel the vehicle. I guess the question is, wouldn't it be better to remove the inefficiency of the alternator (remember the 40% rule) of the engine when it is unneeded? I imagine the milage gains from simply removing the load of the alternator would exceed the power gains from switching the use of the Alternator.

The best way to improve most machines is to remove complexity, not add to it. Every additional system you add (be it cooling, motion, etc) further eats away at a machines potential efficiency.

[Otis Da HousKat]

Already made. Still subject to the same laws of thermodynamics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermophotovoltaic

All machines that we have made, from heatsinks on computers to jet turbines, are all subject to the laws of thermodynamics. To oversimplify; no machine can exceed 40% efficiency. Of the energy that enters a system, only 40% of that energy can converted into a useful force (such as movement) while the other remaining total is wasted. Few machines truly even get close to 40%, the closest are the turbines used to generate power in various powerplants.

From Wikipedia(with a source I can't read):

Efficiency of automotive alternators is limited by fan cooling loss, bearing loss, iron loss, copper loss, and the voltage drop in the diode bridges; at part load, efficiency is between 50-62% depending on the size of alternator, and varies with alternator speed.[7] In comparison, very small high-performance permanent magnet alternators, such as those used for bicycle lighting systems, achieve an efficiency of around only 60%. Larger permanent magnet alternators can achieve much higher efficiency.

I don't believe the problem is the alternator producing enough energy for the work it does, it's that the energy it produces isn't always used for anything. It isn't lost through heat, it's just not used.

[Reactor Worker]

I understand what you're saying. You think that the alternator should be supplying power elsewhere when the battery is charged. I'd argue that it would be better to take the alternator load off the engine when not in use and thereby increase the net efficiency of the car as a whole.

[Ronin]

You should also realize that the old VW bugs had 4 cylinder engines with air-cooled cooling. Not many people like to drive smaller cars with smaller engines.  But I suppose that's more on preference than actual need.

[Otis Da HousKat]

You should also realize that the old VW bugs had 4 cylinder engines with air-cooled cooling. Not many people like to drive smaller cars with smaller engines.  But I suppose that's more on preference than actual need.

The majority of people who drive SUVs and trucks don't need to. SUVs aren't good for anything except for off-roading, and even then only Jeeps and Hummers are really designed for that. If you aren't hauling equipment you use regularly in a truck you shouldn't be driving it. You should be utilizing your truck at least four days of the week. Extended cab trucks make no sense to me. A truck shouldn't be a family vehicle, and extended cab trucks add more weight to the truck and actually lower the amount of usable space in the bed.

But we're Americans! We can drive all the useless stuff we want because we rock!

USA! USA! USA!