Poll

Abortions?

Yay
141 (66.8%)
Nay
46 (21.8%)
Undecisive
24 (11.4%)

Total Members Voted: 211

Author Topic: Abortions? Yay or Nay?  (Read 10602 times)

something that's not alive can't die, abortions aren't counted as deaths.

something that's not alive can't die, abortions aren't counted as deaths.
Miscarriages are counted as deaths, abortions are virtually miscarriages done on purpose.

Miscarriages are counted as deaths, abortions are virtually miscarriages done on purpose.
Abortions are nowhere close to miscarriages
do you think we should ban the Plan B pill or birth control pills because they prevent a fetus from developing?

What else can a fetus develop into besides a child or a dead fetus?

Edit: I think I see what you're saying. The issue here is that you're making moral decisions based on teleological arguments. You're saying that it's okay to give civil rights to things that aren't humans because they'll become humans. The issue with this is that there's really no dichotomy between 'to-be humans' and 'non-humans' under this logic. You could say any food item deserves civil rights because when a mother eats it, the fetus receives nutrients through the placenta that later become part of its body. The fetus wouldn't become a huamn without food, just like a human wouldn't develop without being a fetus.

So should we treat wasting food like murder?
I think you've gone a little far here. A piece of food does not carry human DNA, nor is it uniquely essential to the creation of any unique human. A fertilized egg which is already multiplying and on the path to humanity is far closer to human than food. You cannot treat a fetus as human, nor can you treat it like a human, it is in a category all its own.

Abortions ARE preventable, and banning them could lower the death count.
Yes, but so are other deaths. Deaths of people who are suffering. Deaths much more tragic than the destruction of something that cannot feel.

Abortions are nowhere close to miscarriages
do you think we should ban the Plan B pill or birth control pills because they prevent a fetus from developing?
Yes

something that's not alive can't die, abortions aren't counted as deaths.
The fetus, on a whole, might not count as alive in every way, but its cells do. Not to say that its cells are to be held with the reverence that one might hold human life.

Yes, but so are other deaths. Deaths of people who are suffering. Deaths much more tragic than the destruction of something that cannot feel.
Would you rather have deaths of people who can feel AND deaths of people who can't, or rather just have deaths of people who can feel?

Would you rather have deaths of people who can feel AND deaths of people who can't, or rather just have deaths of people who can feel?
I'd rather have the deaths of people who cannot feel

I'd rather have the deaths of people who cannot feel
But if you had that, the deaths of people who can are included.

Would you rather have deaths of people who can feel AND deaths of people who can't, or rather just have deaths of people who can feel?
I would rather eliminate as many significant deaths as possible and not waste time working on an already function system to deal with those which are not as significant.

I would rather eliminate as many significant deaths as possible and not waste time working on an already function system to deal with those which are not as significant.
That isn't an option.


Abortions guarentee that a fetus won't delvoulp, but wasting some food doesn't. You can waste food and still give birth.
Dude, you're completely missing the point of what I'm saying. There is no dichotomy between things that can 'become humans' and things that are inherently 'non-human' when you follow the logic you're presenting. There is something in nature called the carbon cycle, which is where carbon is transferred between the ocean, the atmosphere, plants, and animals. If it was possible to end this cycle, there would be no plant biomass for humans to consume and we would all die. Under the assumption that plenty of carbon will eventually become part of human tissue, 'not' burning firewood prevents carbon from being released back into the atmosphere and put back into the cycle. This carbon could eventually end up as a part of a child some day, but you're preventing that from happening by trapping it as plant biomass. Within your logic, this should be immoral.

I know you're going to say 'but that doesn't guarantee that that a fetus won't delvoulp[sic]!. I would argue that it does. If you treat fetuses as the embodiment of what will become a human, then you can treat carbon as if it's an embodiment of virtually every organic molecule in the human body. So why not treat that firewood like it's a human ear, or a chunk of fat on someone's stomach? In my understanding of biology, a person cannot survive with a massive chunk of their brain missing, or part of their heart muscle removed. I don't know about you, but if you're going to treat inhuman objects as if they are human, then 'not burning firewood' or wasting food, or doing anything that prevents matter from being turned into human tissue is murder. Sure, the carbon may never end up as a human being, but are you really going to risk killing a potential osteocyte or chunk of human fat by not burning that firewood?

-snip-
I'm talking about destroying the fetus, a thing that is already is starting to develop, not the materials used to form it. You can easily get other matireals that wernt destroyed. And this does not apply to the fetus it's self, if you consider it a matireal.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2013, 08:39:02 PM by joe411 »

I think you've gone a little far here. A piece of food does not carry human DNA, nor is it uniquely essential to the creation of any unique human
I don't think I've gone too far. My brown townogy needs a bit of work, but the message behind it is still true.

A piece of human DNA is not the same thing as a human. Sure, the organization of atoms is more chemically similar to a human cell than, say, amorphous carbon, but that shouldn't change anything because the strip of DNA is not conscious. Does this explain my philosophy on abortion better?

Quote
I'm talking about destroying the fetus, a thing that is already is starting to develop, not the materials used to form it.
I would argue that a fetus should be considered 'materials for forming a human being', seeing as though it's not a functional unit by itself. Treat it like a peptide that hasn't been made into a protein yet.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2013, 08:42:05 PM by SeventhSandwich »