Author Topic: praying before you eat  (Read 25737 times)

The only time I'd ever try to talk to someone about religion is if they explicitly came up to me and asked me about it. I'd only state my religion in a relevant discussion. If I wanted to bother random people about stuff they don't care about, I'd become a Jehovah Witness.

I don't believe in half of what the Bible says because it contradicts itself too much and most of it is incredibly immoral, and lets be honest, most of it is very obvious commercialism and corruption. Like, what makes sense about "yeah god loves everyone but if you don't worship him you'll be in excruciating pain 4ever"? I honestly don't believe that people go to hell unless they commit very severe immoral crimes, and even that sounds a little harsh.  I'm sure God understands why people wouldn't want to be Christians in this day and age. It's not their fault for our failure to convince them.

I honestly think that hell was created by men as a ploy to scare people into the religion so they could harvest the donations. It's basically just 'god wants you to come to church and give us money or burn in hell forever heretic'

not to sound rude but
i wouldn't be able to stand this i just wanna dig in

Pascal's wager works well in showing people that they should look into some kind of religion more in depth with a more open mind than they might normally be willing to. That's all it really meant to do anyways

Also the whole thing Stocking posted really doesn't work at all because the Angels clearly had free will. If they didn't, Lucifer never would have fallen.

Is that really the only reason it doesn't work? Like everything else is spot on, but the idea of brainwashed celestials yearning for freedom is impossible?

That's because they were written by witnesses at least several decades after the events happened. Nobody has perfect memory, so OBVIOUSLY the gospels won't be the same. Heck, we can't even get eye witnesses to say the same thing in court

No, they're straight up wrong about things and they tell almost entirely different stories that make a bunch of silly errors.

For example, Matthew focuses everything he writes about the prophecy in the Old Testament to the point where it's kind of comical.

One of the most glaring errors is the city of Nazareth, which actually never existed according to any account. The reason Jesus was born in Nazareth was because he read the prophecy that said the son of God would be a Nazorean. There is no prophecy in the Old Testament that says this, but there's one that says the son of God will be a Netzerene, which is someone who doesn't cut their hair, doesn't touch dead things, and only eats kosher animals. Basically what Samson was. Matthew literally misread the prophecy and made up a fictional city that would fit the prophecy.

In Matthew the world is ruled by King Herod, and in Luke it's ruled by Augustus Caesar. That's a pretty significant difference.

In Matthew, Herod is said to have issued an edict to have all babies killed. There are no historical records anywhere that talk about a mass genocide of babies, and there's no reason to believe that any king, no matter how stupid or crazy, would try to do something like that to his population. It's completely inconceivable that the population wouldn't immediately revolt and dethrone him to save their children. Luke also makes no mention of this genocide, which again is pretty important.

Mary would not have traveled with Joseph to Bethlehem. She was pregnant and there was absolutely no reason for her to go anywhere because women weren't registered for and nor did they have to pay any taxes.

Joseph would not have had to go to Bethlehem either because taxes were done by districts. There is no record of a great tax and there'd be no way to know what city everyone was descended from because they didn't hold records like that. Given the proposed location of the fictional Nazareth, he wouldn't be headed anywhere near Bethlehem.

Matthew says Jesus was born in an inn, Luke says there was no room at the inn so Mary had to give birth in a trough, which has to make some kind of record for the most unsanitary birth ever. Again kind of an important detail, and I'm stuck wondering whether or not the animals ate the afterbirth since it was kind of like right there.

In Matthew, a group of Magi travel to meet Jesus and give him a lot of really extravagant and expensive gifts. These wise men make no appearance in Luke, which is kind of a big deal.

That's all I can think of off the top of my head.

Ugh, is the motive behind trying to convert people so hard to understand?
If I really think there is a heaven and a hell, how much do I have to hate somebody to not tell them that?
some people want to convert people, because they genuinely want to help them. I'm ok with that, it's respectable enough, but if someone doesn't want to be bothered, I don't think you should continue to try to convert them

Nazareth does exist... Google it.

Edit: Also, Jesus was born in Bethelhem, at an inn's stable. So technically, he was at an inn and a stable. Also, Joseph was in Bethelhem not for taxes, but for a census, according to ESV.

King Herod was king of Israel, but Caeser Agustus of Rome ruled over Herod. This is just a guess on my part, but it seems to make sense to me.  

Or what Mysteroo said below me.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2013, 05:57:06 PM by Georges »

I'm not talking about repeating the same story at somebody, I'm talking about trying to convert somebody. Although some people treat the latter as if it's inherently the former, they're not the same thing.
This is kind of silly, we're both editting our posts and it's kind of confusing and silly.

When you tell someone the story of Jesus, even if you yourself only tell it once, they've heard it countless times before. That's what I mean by "telling the same story over and over again." Maybe a better wording would have been "Them hearing the same story over and over again..." Like I said, anyone who lives in an area where Christianity is significant already knows the story, you telling them, even if you only tell them once and then leave them alone, isn't going to change anything

my family is atheist
we just sit down and eat

Nazareth does exist... Google it.

The Talmud mentions 63 Galilean towns by name, but it doesn't mention Nazareth at all. Rabbi Solly's epistles mention Jesus 221 times, but never once mentions Nazareth. There isn't a single mention of Nazareth in any rabbinic literature from that time period. The earliest mention of a town called Nazareth was on a tablet found in the Caesarea Maritima synagogue that was written in 400 A.D. The first Hebrew mention of the town wasn't until 800 A.D. The town didn't exist until hundreds of years after Christ's proposed death, and was likely named by Christians or simply for the renown a name like that would bring in a world where Christianity was rapidly expanding.

« Last Edit: October 25, 2013, 05:52:11 PM by lolz?? »

I don't understand how you can interpret it to mean something else.
Wat. Everyone seems to interpret numerous things in different ways, and I'm just using Pascal's wager as it was intended originally, how is that hard to understand?

Pascal's wager only refers to the existence of God. Not to any belief specifically. Just because people use it as "You should believe what I believe because it's a bad risk otherwise" doesn't invalidate Pascal's wager. It's a good argument saying that people should look into religion more openly, putting their biases to the side, at least temporarily.


One of the most glaring errors is the city of Nazareth, which actually never existed according to any account.
I have literally never heard this before. Maybe culturally Nazerene's don't cut their hair and that sort of thing, but that doesn't mean Nazareth wasn't a place.

In Matthew the world is ruled by King Herod, and in Luke it's ruled by Augustus Caesar. That's a pretty significant difference.
Eh no. Herod ruled when Jesus was born and then after he died, Ceasar ruled. Jesus was alive for both.

In Matthew, Herod is said to have issued an edict to have all babies killed. There are no historical records anywhere that talk about a mass genocide of babies, and there's no reason to believe that any king, no matter how stupid or crazy, would try to do something like that to his population. It's completely inconceivable that the population wouldn't immediately revolt and dethrone him to save their children. Luke also makes no mention of this genocide, which again is pretty important.

Historical records from 2000 years ago tend to be difficult to come by.
And when a major part of your population is Jewish, for them to suddenly think they have a new king that was born fulfilling prophecy, that is pretty stinking threatening to Herod's power. Besides, if people had the ability to revolt against Rome, they would have already. The Israelites didn't exactly like being under Rome.

Mary would not have traveled with Joseph to Bethlehem. She was pregnant and there was absolutely no reason for her to go anywhere because women weren't registered for and nor did they have to pay any taxes. Joseph would not have had to go to Bethlehem either because taxes were done by districts. There is no record of a great tax and there'd be no way to know what city everyone was descended from because they didn't hold records like that. Given the proposed location of the fictional Nazareth, he wouldn't be headed anywhere near Bethlehem.
Because you know exactly how the census worked 2000 years ago.

Matthew says Jesus was born in an inn,
No it doesn't. It doesn't say where Jesus was born.

These wise men make no appearance in Luke, which is kind of a big deal.
So? There are plenty of things in one Gospel that aren't in another. All that means is that one person remembered something that happened or that Jesus told them about that the other didn't.

This is kind of silly, we're both editting our posts and it's kind of confusing and silly
I edited my post before you posted a reply so :P I think
But anyways, again, conversion is not just telling someone the story of Jesus. If you don't believe in the Bible, obviously reading the Bible to someone won't convert them. There's more too it than that. And besides, people don't know the Bible anywhere NEAR as well as they think they do.

my family is apparently catholic but we never go to church anymore or pray or anything
im p sure my brother is satanic/atheist, i really dont give a forget about religion, but there's a picture of Mary on one of the desks in my sisters room so she's probably religious


And besides, people don't know the Bible anywhere NEAR as well as they think they do.
I know it well enough to decide that I don't believe what it says. I don't have to be familiar with every detail to figure out that I don't want to be a part of it. and it doesn't take much

i think it's dumb to pray before every meal, especially for giving a higher power thanks for the food.  like yeah sure he created it and all and that's nice or whatever but like damn i'm just loving hungry can i eat yet it's not like god picked the food and cleaned and cooked it, i thank the cook for that.

the only time i/my family prays before a meal is before thanksgiving, easter and christmas dinners.

praise jesus, y'all.

edit:  also i go to church on my own time.  forget the sunday schedule thing, i'm not going to be denied entry into heaven just for not showing up to class but still acing the final.

I have literally never heard this before. Maybe culturally Nazerene's don't cut their hair and that sort of thing, but that doesn't mean Nazareth wasn't a place.

The Talmud, which was sort of an atlas written around the time Jesus was died, names 63 Galilean towns but Nazareth is not there. There are dozens of records from the era which name cities and Nazareth isn't mentioned until 400 years after Christ's supposed death.


Eh no. Herod ruled when Jesus was born and then after he died, Ceasar ruled. Jesus was alive for both.

Quote from: Luke 2:1-3
In those days Caesar Augustus issued a decree that a census should be taken of the entire Roman world.
Quote from: Matthew 2:1
After Jesus was born in Bethlehem in Judea, during the time of King Herod, Magi from the east came to Jerusalem

Checkmate.

 
Historical records from 2000 years ago tend to be difficult to come by.
And when a major part of your population is Jewish, for them to suddenly think they have a new king that was born fulfilling prophecy, that is pretty stinking threatening to Herod's power. Besides, if people had the ability to revolt against Rome, they would have already. The Israelites didn't exactly like being under Rome.

So you're saying that people are more likely to revolt on behalf of a prophetic birth than they are for having their babies killed? There's no mention of such an atrocity ever taking place in any other historical document.

Because you know exactly how the census worked 2000 years ago.

No but historians do, and they like to publish things on the internet for me to read.

No it doesn't. It doesn't say where Jesus was born.

Quote from: Matthew 2:11
And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshiped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense and myrrh.
Quote from: Luke 2:12
This will be a sign to you: You will find a baby wrapped in cloths and lying in a manger.”

Mhmm. Have you even read your Bible before?

So? There are plenty of things in one Gospel that aren't in another. All that means is that one person remembered something that happened or that Jesus told them about that the other didn't.

These aren't small details that someone should forget. If a group of pagan priests are so sure that Jesus is God that they give him a small fortune in gifts is kind of a significant event. I mean that's a serious plot point that's completely omitted.

And besides, people don't know the Bible anywhere NEAR as well as they think they do.

Are you trying to tell us something?

Nazarene*

Nope.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2013, 06:19:56 PM by Stocking »