LGBTQA megathread- the stuffstorm has passed and a rainbow protrudes the clouds.

[Frankie²]

Oh hey I mentioned this already

do you think the majority would still be tribal if the government didnt get involved in the 60s?

nowhere in that article did it say anything about racial discrimination

ive addressed this, read some of my recent posts
its no lie that the majority of black people are poor because of unequal opportunities (woah, discrimination!)

[Ad Bot]

[Nonnel]

Unless I'm spelling it wrong, the word "descrimination" was not found anywhere in the article.

you are
but it's not in there spelled correctly either

[Silreath]

you are
but it's not in there spelled correctly either

lol

[Headcrab Zombie]

They'd be hurting their bussniess doing so.

So? Some people are extremely bigoted that they don't care. It doesn't happen very often because of public outcry, but it does happen

If they really care that much about their beliefs then maybe it's best not to work for that person anyway.

Right, because you totally know everyone's beliefs before you start working there. Come on, at least be reasonable with your assumptions

Are you being serious?

Yes? My mom lost her job suddenly when a new manager came in and decided she didn't like her. There was no quality she hated about her, she just didn't like her as a person. Someone whose mind is clouded by hatred would have no problem firing someone.

Maybe it's cause I don't live deep in the south but I don't know a whole lot of people who hate gays so much that they'd be willing to waste potential money just to get rid of one.

So what I'm getting out of this is that your whole argument relies on the fact that you've never seen it occur personally. Well, it does happen, whether you see it or not.
Here's an article about 11 people who were fired simply for being gay last year (and these are only the people who shared their story publicaly, there's a bunch more who didn't) http://www.advocate.com/year-review/2013/12/18/meet-people-fired-being-lgbt-2013

[Harm94]

do you think the majority would still be tribal if the government didnt get involved in the 60s?
ive addressed this, read some of my recent posts
its no lie that the majority of black people are poor because of unequal opportunities (woah, discrimination!)

1. Anything is possible. If you want to change something, you make an impression on the kids. Anyone can do that.
2. Depends, some just grow up into that life because that is the life their parents lived. If are a native American and your parents are poor and life in a shanty, you most likely too. My great grand parents decided they had enough and moved to California because they didn't want their kids to continue that cycle.

[Silreath]

Harm is right- but when most of the U.S. population is telling their kids that homoloveuality is bad, you get even more discrimination, and the cycle never ends.

[Harm94]

You use the right people to talk to the children. I've met many charismatic/influential teachers in my school career.

[Frankie²]

1. Anything is possible. If you want to change something, you make an impression on the kids. Anyone can do that.
2. Depends, some just grow up into that life because that is the life their parents lived. If are a native American and your parents are poor and life in a shanty, you most likely too. My great grand parents decided they had enough and moved to California because they didn't want their kids to continue that cycle.

1) this isnt always the case. maaaaybe if you're lucky you can sway someones opinions one way or the other but the majority of people are pretty closed minded (if they like to admit it or not)
2) to move you need money, and (arguably with exceptions) you need a decent education to get a job to provide the money. public schools are funded primarily by property taxes in the area. do you really think that some house in the ghetto is going to be worth that much? schools in poorer districts dont get as much money, and because of it they cant get as good of an education to get a decent paying job allowing them to move

[DrenDran]

lol

you are
but it's not in there spelled correctly either

lol

So? Some people are extremely bigoted that they don't care. It doesn't happen very often because of public outcry, but it does happen

So it doesn't happen often?
That's good enough for me.

Right, because you totally know everyone's beliefs before you start working there. Come on, at least be reasonable with your assumptions

If I didn't get hired because I was gay, then I probably wouldn't want to work for the person who wouldn't hire me anyway.

Yes? My mom lost her job suddenly when a new manager came in and decided she didn't like her. There was no quality she hated about her, she just didn't like her as a person. Someone whose mind is clouded by hatred would have no problem firing someone.

Once again, sucks for her.
But if she was a decent worker then the business also takes a hit. (even if the scale of the company makes it seem more insignificant)

So what I'm getting out of this is that your whole argument relies on the fact that you've never seen it occur personally. Well, it does happen, whether you see it or not.
Here's an article about 11 people who were fired simply for being gay last year (and these are only the people who shared their story publicaly, there's a bunch more who didn't) http://www.advocate.com/year-review/2013/12/18/meet-people-fired-being-lgbt-2013

Okay, once again, sucks for them, I hope they can find somewhere else to work.

My argument relies on a different set of moral rules. I don't think we're even arguing facts here.

[Headcrab Zombie]

If I didn't get hired because I was gay, then I probably wouldn't want to work for the person who wouldn't hire me anyway.

...

Nobody at their interview goes "hi im gay will you still hire me?"
They keep it a secret, and then later get outed. This is what they fear, the consequences following if someone finds out and tells others.
Or maybe a very accepting manager was replaced by a very bigoted one

My argument relies on a different set of moral rules. I don't think we're even arguing facts here.

And what are these 'moral rules'
With your constant repetition of "sucks for them" to almost every point I make, all I'm seeing is an extreme lack of empathy

[DrenDran]

And what are these 'moral rules'
With your constant repetition of "sucks for them" to almost every point I make, all I'm seeing is an extreme lack of empathy

The right of people to their own property Annoying Oranges that of workers to prospective jobs.

[Headcrab Zombie]

The right of people to their own property Annoying Oranges that of workers to prospective jobs.

Maybe in a highly (almost to an extreme) capitalist economy/Laissez-faire government, this is what would happen. But the US simply isn't that far to the extreme, our economy and government is set up with tons of government intervention, not to the point of full socialism, but about a balance. I understand the point, and you can argue it all you want, but the fact is there simply aren't enough people that share that viewpoint for it to happen.

[ultimamax]

These are just some of my thoughts and my inner babblings.
1A). Marriage is a dieing practice anyway. Plus many consider it to be an act of a male taking ownership of a women, so basically it would be a man taking custody of another man and making him his bitch so to speak. bullstuff excuse. if gay and straight people are equal, there is no reason that they shouldn't be afforded the same privileges, regardless of your thoughts on marriage.
2A). Depends on the state. this isn't an excuse either. it should be federally protected.
3A). Many Businesses put a sign right saying they have the right to deny service to anyone they don't like, that bill would be an extension to that right. Just like how a male gay bar could reserve the right to not serve straight people. i'm not actually sure about this one. if you're allowed to refuse service based on race/gender then i dont really see a problem with this. government-owned operations should not be allowed to do this however.

1B.) Depends on the culture of that state, the people that end up hateing gays are the ones that were indoctrinated by their parents through religion or extreme politics like national socialistsm or Communism. You can't really change their opinions overnight by force, it would be like trying to tame an adult cat. we're not looking to change opinions overnight. we're looking to secure rights for LGBT+ people, regardless of what bigots believe

So basically if you are feeling oppressed, why not move to a place that is more tolerant if had the chance to leave than stay in the place where you are unhappy. When the Native Americans were forced to relocate, the Choctaw tribe left a year early because they saw that as a chance to get away from white oppression rather than getting pushed around. After feeling unwelcome in Europe, many jews went to Israel where they would live happily with their own kind(while oppressing another, but that is another argument for another day). because up and moving is so simple. if all the black people had moved to liberia out of america in the 1750s, america would not be as diverse or racially accepting as it is today.

[Dodger]

What the forget this is like the same issue as the civil rights movement. "We can't serve you or give you a job because you're black." Now replace black with gay. We had this whole thing called the bill of rights for a loving reason.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sit-in The government was still inefficient in that area, and it still required individual strength to force change. Part of my point still stands. Also, the fourteenth amendment isn't in the bill of rights, and it doesn't explicitly cover the private sector, only political rights.

[Silreath]

People have the right to refuse service to anyone, but that doesn't change the fact that if they refuse service to a particular group that they are an starfish.