supreme court struck down affirmative action 6-2

[DrenDran]

i think when he says a criminal record he means a repeat offender

just the connotation of the word "record" makes it seem as if it's happened more than once

Of course, I agree with you in this aspect but only this aspect.

I'm taking criminology/criminal justice as a major. I know for a fact that there was a study in Flordia where people who were charged with felonies, but had adjudication withheld (were not classified as felons, despite getting the same exact sentence) had on average rates of recidivism 17% lower. Additionally, the love offender registry has actually caused more loveual offenses than it has prevented.

Here we see that ultimax and his lust for the cycle of poverty have actually missed the core idea behind preventing the cycle of poverty. Discriminating based on previous offenses is not too much different than discriminating based on race in areas (e.g. zones of transition) where the statistics previously posted are actually relevant.

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[TristanLuigi]

Except they do deserve benefits. Diversity benefits schools and workplaces. Minorities are still extremely discriminated against. By allowing more qualified minorities into the workforce/high education we help improve their economic situation and the state of their community as a whole, in order to work towards a more diverse and equal America.

> Their skin color is different
> Let them into the college even though their grades are sub-par

Does that make any sense to you? This is JUST AS tribal.

[ultimamax]

I'm taking criminology/criminal justice as a major. I know for a fact that there was a study in Flordia where people who were charged with felonies, but had adjudication withheld (were not classified as felons, despite getting the same exact sentence) had on average rates of recidivism 17% lower. Additionally, the love offender registry has actually caused more loveual offenses than it has prevented.

Here we see that ultimax and his lust for the cycle of poverty have actually missed the core idea behind preventing the cycle of poverty. Discriminating based on previous offenses is not too much different than discriminating based on race in areas (e.g. zones of transition) where the statistics previously posted are actually relevant.

Except discriminating on previous offenses is making judgements based on the previous character of an individual, as opposed to comparing them to their entire race. When screening applicants criminal offense is much more relevant than their race when attempting to discern their personality and behavior.

> Their skin color is different
> Let them into the college even though their grades are sub-par

Does that make any sense to you? This is JUST AS tribal.

Affirmative action doesn't seek to let minorities with sub-par grades into high paying jobs or prestigious schools. It simply wouldn't make sense. Letting them into a prestigious school would be futile if they were unable to handle the workload, as seen by their grades. Businesses exist solely to make money. They are machines. They would not take an under-qualified minority over a well qualified white person because of their race. It's simply not profitable or sustainable.

[childofdarkness016]

feminism isn't about women exclusively

it's also about femininity

I feel that it's important for me to establish the difference between love and gender, though this is regurgitated many times. love is physical, gender is psychological. love is generally black and white, and gender is in a spectrum that ranges from feminine and masculine.

Feminism is about not only people who have vaginas, but also people who think and behave in ways associated with those with vaginas. So, yes, that includes men.

Issues such as the fact that women can wear typically men's clothing, such as flannels, without stigma, but a man wearing a skirt or a blouse is considered wrong. Why is it wrong to be effeminate?

FTMs are generally better treated than MTFs because people find it strange that a man wants to be a woman, but a woman acting however she wants is more ok (but not totally). Why is it wrong to be effeminate?

I'm a cisgendered male, and I need feminism because I don't want to act like a normal male. I might be more effeminate, but that doesn't mean I'm non-binary. I want to wear makeup. I want to wear "women's clothing." I also want to be taken seriously and respected while doing such. I don't want to cause media attention because of that. I'm not special. If being ladylike isn't viewed as a bad thing, which is a goal of feminism, then I can do this. Of course, if that happens, I'm not going to be alive by then, but it's not like i'm ever going to mention this again. and i know i'm going to be ridiculed for this and start another argument about gender but i'm taking the risks

MRAs are absolutely wrong when they say that feminism only affects women. Extremely wrong.

also now i have to read what you sent

[Oasis]

Affirmative action doesn't seek to let minorities with sub-par grades into high paying jobs or prestigious schools. It simply wouldn't make sense. Letting them into a prestigious school would be futile if they were unable to handle the workload, as seen by their grades. Businesses exist solely to make money. They are machines. They would not take an under-qualified minority over a well qualified white person because of their race. It's simply not profitable or sustainable.

With quotas sometimes you have no choice but to accept sub-par grades. Or if your university is striving towards diversity.

My entire argument in this thread can be summed up to a few words: Discrimination is really loving bad no matter which way you slice it.

[Char]

http://anti-feminism-pro-equality.tumblr.com/badwomen
http://anti-feminism-pro-equality.tumblr.com/quotes
http://dontneedfeminism.tumblr.com/post/69121428967/do-you-have-a-list-of-violent-crimes-perpetrated-by

You could do this for nearly every movement or group of people.

jackasses. i'm telling you.

I still don't get it. You're pointing to a minority of people in a movement and then denying that it is a minority.
Again, the reason they seem like a majority is because they will get covered more often in media because they are more extreme and vocal.

I said it before, but you can do the same with religious fundamentalists and the more moderate members of the religion.

[Kimon²]

feminism is far from the best movement to rely on that for AND FOR GODS SAKE THE SOURCES LITERALLY POINT OUT THOUSANDS OF FEMINISTS LIKE THAT if that isn't a harmful amount then i dont know what is

[ultimamax]

With quotas sometimes you have no choice but to accept sub-par grades. Or if your university is striving towards diversity.

My entire argument in this thread can be summed up to a few words: Discrimination is really loving bad no matter which way you slice it.

I don't support quotas. They don't make sense in this regard. But, I do support accepting people slightly worse than a white person for the sake of diversity, so long as you are sure that they will make use of their time in your institution correctly. Bad grades are not always indicative of intelligence anyway; it could say something about the quality of the school or the teachers as well.

It's a very complex issue.

feminism isn't about women exclusively

it's also about femininity

I feel that it's important for me to establish the difference between love and gender, though this is regurgitated many times. love is physical, gender is psychological. love is generally black and white, and gender is in a spectrum that ranges from feminine and masculine.

Feminism is about not only people who have vaginas, but also people who think and behave in ways associated with those with vaginas. So, yes, that includes men.

Issues such as the fact that women can wear typically men's clothing, such as flannels, without stigma, but a man wearing a skirt or a blouse is considered wrong. Why is it wrong to be effeminate?

FTMs are generally better treated than MTFs because people find it strange that a man wants to be a woman, but a woman acting however she wants is more ok (but not totally). Why is it wrong to be effeminate?

I'm a cisgendered male, and I need feminism because I don't want to act like a normal male. I might be more effeminate, but that doesn't mean I'm non-binary. I want to wear makeup. I want to wear "women's clothing." I also want to be taken seriously and respected while doing such. I don't want to cause media attention because of that. I'm not special. If being ladylike isn't viewed as a bad thing, which is a goal of feminism, then I can do this. Of course, if that happens, I'm not going to be alive by then, but it's not like i'm ever going to mention this again. and i know i'm going to be ridiculed for this and start another argument about gender but i'm taking the risks

MRAs are absolutely wrong when they say that feminism only affects women. Extremely wrong.

also now i have to read what you sent

Yeah. By doing away with gender roles (which feminism strives to do), harmful stigmas against men like the notion that they can't express any emotion but anger or indifference will be done away with.

feminism is far from the best movement to rely on that for AND FOR GODS SAKE THE SOURCES LITERALLY POINT OUT THOUSANDS OF FEMINISTS LIKE THAT if that isn't a harmful amount then i dont know what is

i could bring our PM conversation to this topic if you'd like.

[Char]

feminism is far from the best movement to rely on that for AND FOR GODS SAKE THE SOURCES LITERALLY POINT OUT THOUSANDS OF FEMINISTS LIKE THAT if that isn't a harmful amount then i dont know what is

You can easily find thousands like that in any movement, or a similar proportion if you wanna be a smart-ass and get some movement that has like 500 people or something.
I'm not saying it's a harmful amount, but this harmful amount exists in nearly everything. Every movement has moderates and outliers that fall under the same term, but the outliers get more recognition because, again, they are more extreme and vocal about their extreme beliefs.

Jesus...

[ultimamax]

I believe lots of feminists don't even publicly identify as feminists for fear of being assumed to be one of those outliers.

[Kimon²]

You can easily find thousands like that in any movement, or a similar proportion if you wanna be a smart-ass and get some movement that has like 500 people or something.
I'm not saying it's a harmful amount, but this harmful amount exists in nearly everything. Every movement has moderates and outliers that fall under the same term, but the outliers get more recognition because, again, they are more extreme and vocal about their extreme beliefs.

Jesus...

so thereore the groups arent problematic, right? no, all groups like tht are extremely problematic!

[ultimamax]

so thereore the groups arent problematic, right? no, all groups like tht are extremely problematic!

TIL muslims and christians are problematic because of the Taliban and the WBC

[DrenDran]

There's a lot I'd like to respond to but I'm on my phone, so I'll post this:

Why's diversity so important? Are people really just trading cards to collect and show off?

[Kimon²]

TIL muslims and christians are problematic because of the Taliban and the WBC

although i guess that would be pretty true, you are comparing the worlds biggest religions to feminist groups.

[DrenDran]

although i guess that would be pretty true, you are comparing the worlds biggest religions to feminist groups.

Some of their beliefs, especially the more radical ones, are akin to a religion.