Poll

gmo?

forget yes
6 (66.7%)
yes
0 (0%)
durr
1 (11.1%)
no
2 (22.2%)
forget no
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 9

Author Topic: science debate megathread  (Read 10357 times)

new subject:
I don't' care about this because as far as I know their lifestyle is just not using technology, not trying to actively prevent scientific advances/the use of them

They use to say DDT, cigarettes, and cocaine were safe. Look how that turned out.  
There's a difference between manufacturers of a product saying it's safe in order to sell it, and a scientific consensus shared backed by over 2000 studies, several hundred of which are completely independently funded.
You can probably guess which one GMO foods belong too. In case you can't, here's a few links to help you out:
http://gmopundit.blogspot.com/p/450-published-safety-assessments.html
http://www.geneticliteracyproject.org/2013/10/08/with-2000-global-studies-confirming-safety-gm-foods-among-most-brown townyzed-subject-in-science/#.U3oNViimWxV

Definitely not against labels on GMO food, more information is power.
The only reason I wouldn't support this is that we live in a society with very poor science education, and as soon as it no longer becomes economically viable to research genetically modified foods (For example, as soon as they're labeled and people start to stop buying them out of fear and misinformation) the research on genetic engineering will stop. This is a problem because while starvation isn't a huge issue in the US, many developing countries are working towards solving their starvation and malnutrition issues by genetically engineering foods. Not to mention that it would essentially halt research on edible vaccinations, which have the propensity to eradicate many infectious diseases decades faster than the intravenous variety.

Furthermore, GMOs and non-GMO crops are substantially equivalent, making the label completely pointless. If you consume a GMO crop versus a non-GMO crop, no medical scan/blood test or any other exam you can think of would be able to show that you consumed that variety. It's essentially like forcing people to label crops that were raised 'with love' versus 'without love'.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2014, 10:07:59 AM by Headcrab Zombie »

There's nothing wrong with GM food. The scientific community knows that.
GM foods save lives. You only have to look at Golden Rice to see how it's beneficial.

Fearmongering (which Harm is doing) helps no one.
This isn't the same age where people see a bright chemical and then proceed to paint everything in it without testing what it does to people (à la radium).
Nothing gets introduced anymore without rigorous cross-examination by the scientific world.
Just because some people are smarter than you it doesn't mean they have malicious intent. If you don't trust the professionals, who can you trust?

And even if mistakes happen, it's only going to teach us in the future.

>title makes no sense

Anyway, I have been kind of wondering something. In the realm of humans, there seems to be two types of people. I don't know whether to classify them by terms of religion, knowledge, beliefs, etc. Not sure if I'm making any sense so I'll try to clarify.

You have the people that are more outspoken and believe every word taught in school. Generally thinking like this:

Uniformitarianists
Pro-abortion
Pro-artificial goods
Anti-religious freedom
Very political
Beginning of life spontaneously formed by chemicals
Pro-Self Delete choice
Etc

Then there are people like this, who generally get the butt of everything:

Catastrophists
Pro-life
Natural goods
Religious freedom
Usually philosophically minded
Life formed from supernatural being
Self Delete as crime
Etc

My point being that there really doesn't seem to be interchanging ideas. Everyone just seems to take one side and bring everything with them regardless of knowledge. Is there a name for this?

There isn't, because while those views do exist, they don't correlate to each other at all. I don't even think they do generally.

Being supportive of pro-choice (a better term than pro-abortion, which suggests you want to promote people having abortions, rather than promote being able to have them, which are very different things), and being anti-religious aren't joined at the hip, or even at all.

You can be one and not the other.
And most people aren't anti-religious belief. They might be atheist/agnostic, but that doesn't mean they hate religious belief/believers. They might not want the belief of others to be something that controls the progress of society or science or education, but that doesn't mean that they don't want belief to exist.


You're nit-picking things and putting them together in weird ways.
There are often ways you can split people up by their views, but that doesn't mean everyone fits into that view or even that the general populace does.
You get creationist scientists. You got religious pro-choicers. You get atheist philosophers. You get people who are pro-death sentence, but tolerant to Self Deletes. You get people who are pro-GMO, yet pro-FairTrade.

Your examples don't properly group together, and it's best to avoid grouping people like that.
There always will be some groups of like-minded people all sharing opinions on a multitude of subjects.
But if you go in expecting people to all belong to one group, you make bad assumptions. Just remember that everyone is an individual with their own personal views. There are no two people with identical views on every single thing.
No one likes to be judged based on similarities to other people's views.

I just love how the "anti science thread" almost immediately became the "science debate thread", choc-full of all things science.

if you dont give your babies vaccines go die in a hole

@dooble

I wasn't picking on anybody. I just made an observation and asked about it. I was just saying that their seems to be two major stereotypes.

I was just saying that their seems to be two major stereotypes.
Maybe in your mind but not in reality. (This sounds really harsh, but please don't take it that way)

Maybe in your mind but not in reality. (This sounds really harsh, but please don't take it that way)
Nonono, he said stereotypes. Stereotypes aren't usually realistic views in the first place.

There's nothing wrong with GM food. The scientific community knows that.
GM foods save lives. You only have to look at Golden Rice to see how it's beneficial.


Fearmongering (which Harm is doing) helps no one.
What kind of traitorenglishmanFrenchman are you?

Also big brother government and Umbrella corporation exist. They are going to use their big space laser to zap all that resist in the name of a big coupan scam pyramid scheme I tell you! WAKE UP!  :cookieMonster:

Let see at one point in time doctors said smoking was safe, another time cocaine was put into food, ddt was used heavily as the safe pesticide, then have Thalidomide and all the birth defects it caused.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2014, 02:39:24 PM by Harm94 »

Let see at one point in time doctors said smoking was safe, another time cocaine was put into food, ddt was used heavily as the safe pesticide, then have Thalidomide and all the birth defects it caused.
Smoking was considered safe on the grounds that it had been used for centuries (both tobacco and cannabis), and there was a lot of money behind it.
Plus the fact that for the most part, it wasn't readily available to every person, so it wasn't widespread, meaning cases of cancer and lung-disease were uncommon.
On top of that, it wasn't until the increase in average lifespan in that last hundred years that cancers (which are typically an old-age illness) were encountered on mass.
Plus, smoking was supported as traditional and good for an upstanding member of a community.

Cocaine was used during the period of the Great Binge, when god knows how many different drugs were used.
It was the beginning of Chemistry, and wonderful things were being produced. They had unbelievable effects on people, which everyone wanted.
Cocaine was used because it was believed to be a great anaesthetic, and like many drugs and new discoveries that came in the Age of Enlightenment, it was essentially a panacea.
This is the same time when people believed that Radium and Electriticty applied to anything would cure or enhance everything.
Yeah, we know that a lot of these things are bad now, but this is before they were even used on a large enough scale or for long enough to even realise there were risks, and before science had even grown to be able to examine these.

DDT was similarly a wonder-drug for acting as an insecticide, and it's no surprise that people took to it so much without waiting to see what effects it would have on ecology.
Even the likes of Charles Darwin had no concept of conservationism, and these discoverers unwittingly, but happily, caused endangerment and extinction of numerous species or animal, plant and more.
DDT happened to be just as bad for ecology, but no one expected it because such a thing had never happened before.

Thalidomide was an accident, caused purely by a lack of knowledge in synthesising man-made drugs, and the dangers of chemical chirality.
Thalidomide worked absolutely loving perfectly at it's intended job, and it's still used today.
But the scientists producing it at the time had no idea that when making it they made an optical isomer which caused the damage to unborn children that it did. How could they have known that it would produce an isomer of itself that worked differently, or that it would do such a thing to children. It was just a seriously unfortunate chance that it was used to treat morning sickness.

The point isn't that these mistakes were made and will happen again.

It's that these mistakes were made because we knew no better. We didn't have clinical trials and studies, and we didn't have the scientific knowledge to test these materials.
Science hadn't existed in this form yet. We had no experience to go on, so we threw ourselves straight in, with consquences both bad and good.
We have learnt so much from these mistakes, and so little escapes the prying eyes of scientists, sceptics and the media these days.

We work hard not to make these same mistakes.
Come on Harm, I know for a fact that you're good with history. You know full well that "those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it".
We don't study the history of these things so we can make the exact same mistakes.

What kind of Frenchman are you?
he's this kind of frenchman

If I recall correct, genetically modified corn was banned in France and other EU states.

If history has taught me anything, the same mistakes are repeated over and over. It is like you keep putting your arm in bear trap with expectations of a different result, but that never the case. There are always liars, some times liars on both sides and you don't know who to believe anymore.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2014, 04:32:42 PM by Harm94 »

If I recall correct, genetically modified corn was banned in France and other EU states.

If history has taught me anything, the same mistakes are repeated over and over. It is like you keep putting your arm in bear trap with expectations of a different result, but that never the case. There are always liars, some times liars on both sides and you don't know who to believe anymore.
We never tested the things that ended up being mistakes, there are thousands of studies on GMOs

If I recall correct, genetically modified corn was banned in France and other EU states.
When I did Model UN all the countries that ban GMOs like France are just ones with snooty quality-regulations about the type of cuisine they let people import into their country. It has nothing to do with safety or nutrition

If history has taught me anything, the same mistakes are repeated over and over. It is like you keep putting your arm in bear trap with expectations of a different result, but that never the case. There are always liars, some times liars on both sides and you don't know who to believe anymore.
Did you skip over the second half of dooble's post, or what?
We never tested the things that ended up being mistakes, there are thousands of studies on GMOs
And of these studies, not a single one showed credible evidence of any harm