Obama Gets 9 Allies to Help Battle Against the cancerous CIA

[SeventhSandwich]

I don't think that I am misinterpreting the statistics, but if I am I'd be glad to see what I interpreted incorrectly. I haven't said anywhere that black people are the cause of crime, to say the least.  I said that black neighborhoods on average have much higher crime rates compared to a neighborhood with a majority white population. That isn't tribal, that is not stereotyping, that is what we call a statistic.

Okay, I am going to force you to make a defensible argument instead of just saying latently tribal stuff and then hiding behind ambiguous language.

We've established that Black neighborhoods have a higher crime rate on average, so what do you think causes that?

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[Nonnel]

I don't think that I am misinterpreting the statistics, but if I am I'd be glad to see what I interpreted incorrectly. I haven't said anywhere that black people are the cause of crime, to say the least.  I said that black neighborhoods on average have much higher crime rates compared to a neighborhood with a majority white population. That isn't tribal, that is not stereotyping, that is what we call a statistic.

[sir dooble]

Uh, instead of saying "some Muslims (not all)", why not identify that group of people by something else, rather than their religion?
Because "muslim" categorises a massive number of people with immensely wide characters/attributes/history/culture and is not at all representative of the people you're talking about.

Using the word "muslim" immediately makes you think of all muslims, regardless of your qualifier of "not all muslims".
There's more to define these particular people besides their faith, and when you have a faith which makes up 23% of the world population, it's just ridiculous to use that faith to identify a tiny population.

[Biostorm]

Again, another person jumps out and takes something completely out of context. Nowhere did I say all Muslims wanting to immigrate to the US hate the US and should be denied citizenship because of their religion. It seems like I can't say a thing without someone shouting "racism!". I guess that's how people get their argument across nowadays. Ben Stein distinctly said that some Muslims who immigrate to this country become citizens, but hate the country. It's completely plausible considering the amount of hate and resentment that the Muslim world has against American and Western civilization.

I'm sure the fact that a lot of the Arabic world feels some sort of resentment towards the US has nothing to do with the fact that the US has destabilized Iraq to the point where it is nothing but a black hole that threatens to destabilize the region further, has been droning civilians to death in search of insurgents, which has done nothing more than create terrorists, and helped create Al-Qaeda by funding the mujahideen.

[Caribou]

I'm sure the fact that a lot of the Arabic world feels some sort of resentment towards the US has nothing to do with the fact that the US has destabilized Iraq to the point where it is nothing but a black hole that threatens to destabilize the region further, has been droning civilians to death in search of insurgents, which has done nothing more than create terrorists, and helped create Al-Qaeda by funding the mujahideen.

As much as I agree with you, Iraq was a wreck before we went in.

[SeventhSandwich]

I can't give full legitimate evidence, but I'll show you some things and I'd like to see your thoughts: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_the_United_States#American_Muslims.27_views_of_the_United_States (You will see that only 15,000 Muslim Americans serve in the Armed Forces out of 2.6 million Muslims in the country which is very low per capita compared to other groups such as Hispanics which compromise 17.9% of the military's population)

The median household income of Hispanics in 2012 was $39,000. I had trouble getting a definitive figure for the median household income of a immigrant Muslim family, but iraq.usembassy.gov says "Forty-one percent of all Muslim Americans and 45 percent of immigrant Muslims report annual household income levels of $50,000 or higher".

Probably the biggest reason people enter the military is for financial reasons. They pay for your college and you get money. Hispanic youth see it as an escape from poverty, but less Muslim children see it as their only option. I don't think your evidence shows that Hispanics 'like' America any more than the Muslims do.

edit: I found some highly relevant reading
http://www.alternet.org/story/52233/the_making_of_an_american_soldier%3A_why_young_people_join_the_military

Gonna reiterate:

Okay, I am going to force you to make a defensible argument instead of just saying latently tribal stuff and then hiding behind ambiguous language.

We've established that Black neighborhoods have a higher crime rate on average, so what do you think causes that?

[Shortcut]

Just saying, but (most of) the Middle East would have no reason to hate us if we didn't give them one.

[Biostorm]

I can't give full legitimate evidence, but I'll show you some things and I'd like to see your thoughts: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_the_United_States#American_Muslims.27_views_of_the_United_States (You will see that only 15,000 Muslim Americans serve in the Armed Forces out of 2.6 million Muslims in the country which is very low per capita compared to other groups such as Hispanics which compromise 17.9% of the military's population)

It doesn't take a genius to realize that the Arab world isn't America's biggest fan.


As much as I agree with you, Iraq was a wreck before we went in.

There are over 50 million Hispanics in the US. It's no surprise they make up a fairly large part of the military.

And yes, Iraq was a wreck, but it would still be in better condition had the US not attacked.

[Mikoyan]

Just saying, but (most of) the Middle East would have no reason to hate us if we didn't give them one.

yes liberating a tyrannical dictatorship and trying to help stuffhole villages from oppression is definitely a reason to hate the West

[Caribou]

The median household income of Hispanics in 2012 was $39,000. I had trouble getting a definitive figure for the median household income of a immigrant Muslim family, but iraq.usembassy.gov says "Forty-one percent of all Muslim Americans and 45 percent of immigrant Muslims report annual household income levels of $50,000 or higher".

Probably the biggest reason people enter the military is for financial reasons. They pay for your college and you get money. Hispanic youth see it as an escape from poverty, but less Muslim children see it as their only option. I don't think your evidence shows that Hispanics 'like' America any more than the Muslims do.

edit: I found some highly relevant reading
http://www.alternet.org/story/52233/the_making_of_an_american_soldier%3A_why_young_people_join_the_military

Gonna reiterate:

Many also join the military to fight for their country, and to show their love for their country..

[Shortcut]

yes liberating a tyrannical dictatorship and trying to help stuffhole villages from oppression is definitely a reason to hate the West

What reasons did we give them? Trying to help them stabilize their countries, overthrowing their dictators who they thought were "oppressive", and attempting numerous times to stop rebellions all sound like things that would benefit the people of those nations.

What are you people even talking about? Sure, we TRIED to do that in theory, but eventually we ended up just starting wars.

[Nonnel]

Per capita though, there are far more Hispanics in the military compared to Muslim's excluding the fact that Hispanics represent almost a quarter of our population.

You said per capita and then you noted the total percent of Mexicans in the military.

[SeventhSandwich]

Many also join the military to fight for their country, and to show their love for their country.

yeah but most don't, which means that your evidence doesn't support your conclusion.

Gonna reiterate:

Okay, I am going to force you to make a defensible argument instead of just saying latently tribal stuff and then hiding behind ambiguous language.

We've established that Black neighborhoods have a higher crime rate on average, so what do you think causes that?

What reasons did we give them? Trying to help them stabilize their countries, overthrowing their dictators who they thought were "oppressive", and attempting numerous times to stop rebellions all sound like things that would benefit the people of those nations.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_casualty_ratio#Iraq_War

compare to WWII

[Mikoyan]

What are you people even talking about? Sure, we TRIED to do that in theory, but eventually we ended up just starting wars.

Yeah you have to wage war to fight people is there something you're trying to say?

[beachbum111111]

Okay what the forget is going on in this thread. What is caribou trying to argue?