"No Justice No Tree / #ShutItDown" in NYC (Eric Garner Protests)

[$trinick]

Negligent manslaughter generally applies when someone had an expressed or implied duty to do something that they failed to do, resulting in a death. E.g. a doctor not realizing that a patient's oxygen is unhooked. It's a weak argument that police officers have a duty to ensure that a suspect resisting arrest does not have asthma before trying to take them down. The cop really wasn't negligent about anything.

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[Mikoyan]

Okay I agree with no indictment of Wilson but this is forgeted up.

[Aces]

Negligent manslaughter generally applies when someone had an expressed or implied duty to do something that they failed to do, resulting in a death. E.g. a doctor not realizing that a patient's oxygen is unhooked. It's a weak argument that police officers have a duty to ensure that a suspect resisting arrest does not have asthma before trying to take them down. The cop really wasn't negligent about anything.

It is exactly negligence.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gross_negligence

A prohibited choke hold is negligent to use against anyone, as they are dangerous by NYPD standards.

[$trinick]

First off, chokeholds are only prohibited by NYPD guidelines, not by law. So, legally, they don't constitute negligence. Regardless, even if they were illegal, using an illegal maneuver to subdue someone that results in their death is not negligence. It could be considered imperfect self-defense, theoretically, but he wasn't really acting in self defense, he was just subduing the suspect.

The cop wasn't being negligent by using a chokehold. Negligence is the opposite of being careful, so either he intentionally used the chokehold and was reckless (in which case he could theoretically be up for involuntary manslaughter) or he meant to use a wrestling move (as I talked about in my post here) and slid in which case he could theoretically be up for negligent manslaughter, but they would have to prove that he was being careless when he made a mistake rather than simply making the mistake.

[Kimon²]

First off, chokeholds are only prohibited by NYPD guidelines, not by law. So, legally, they don't constitute negligence. Regardless, even if they were illegal, using an illegal maneuver to subdue someone that results in their death is not negligence. It could be considered imperfect self-defense, theoretically, but he wasn't really acting in self defense, he was just subduing the suspect.

The cop wasn't being negligent by using a chokehold. Negligence is the opposite of being careful, so either he intentionally used the chokehold and was reckless (in which case he could theoretically be up for involuntary manslaughter) or he meant to use a wrestling move (as I talked about in my post here) and slid in which case he could theoretically be up for negligent manslaughter, but they would have to prove that he was being careless when he made a mistake rather than simply making the mistake.

did the cop himself not testify that he didnt mean to put him in a chokehold? that he literally made a mistake when putting him in a chokehold?
http://dissenter.firedoglake.com/2014/12/04/officer-who-killed-eric-garner-with-chokehold-told-grand-jury-being-filmed-didnt-bother-him/
and let's not forget, the cop has been sued previously for misconduct
http://www.freep.com/story/news/nation/2014/12/05/new-york-eric-garner-death/19940899/

[Blockzillahead]

is there a real context here or has it been buried by the dumbass crowds again? did the guy provoke the officer? or did the officer just walk up to him and chokehold him to the ground for no reason?

[$trinick]

did the cop himself not testify that he didnt mean to put him in a chokehold?

His representative lawyer said that he meant to use a wrestling style move that's taught in police academy where one arm is used to loop around one of the suspect's arms and the other arm is used to press downwards on their chest to bring them down. His argument is that he missed his chest and rather than instantly release and try again he simply released the chokehold as soon as possible when the subject had already been taken down. I'm not sure why you're asking this though.

and let's not forget, the cop has been sued previously for misconduct

So because in the past he's been sued for misconduct (by the way, he wasn't convicted) that means that all of his conduct has to be illegal, right?

is there a real context here or has it been buried by the dumbass crowds again? did the guy provoke the officer? or did the officer just walk up to him and chokehold him to the ground for no reason?

He was actively resisting arrest so the officer took him down with the help of other officers.

[Blockzillahead]

He was actively resisting arrest so the officer took him down with the help of other officers.

gg
why is this debate even happening

[Kimon²]

His representative lawyer said that he meant to use a wrestling style move that's taught in police academy where one arm is used to loop around one of the suspect's arms and the other arm is used to press downwards on their chest to bring them down. His argument is that he missed his chest and rather than instantly release and try again he simply released the chokehold as soon as possible when the subject had already been taken down. I'm not sure why you're asking this though.

would loving up a police maneuver and accidentally killing a man not be considered careless?

So because in the past he's been sued for misconduct (by the way, he wasn't convicted) that means that all of his conduct has to be illegal, right?

it sure as hell makes him less credible than he already was.

He was actively resisting arrest so the officer took him down with the help of other officers.

for that matter, in what world would there have been a need for multiple cops to dogpile a man yelling "i cant breathe?"

gg
why is this debate even happening

because this is yet another case where a cop's carelessness cost a life and jurors believed that there was so little evidence against him, even though they had a recording of the whole encounter, that they couldnt even indict him. maybe you remember the odds of a jury not indicting someone from earlier in the thread?

[$trinick]

gg
why is this debate even happening

Because another black person was killed by police and society is already pumped up from the last two events. In 2012, 2,640,067 black people were arrested. So, at 2 and a half million arrests a year, it's actually kind of impressive that less than 5 resulted in death when they shouldn't have.

would loving up a police maneuver and accidentally killing a man not be considered careless?

No, it wouldn't. Just as you don't get a reckless driving charge for T-boning someone when you go at the wrong time at a stop sign.

it sure as hell makes him less credible than he already was.

Not really. It would if he'd actually been convicted of anything.

for that matter, in what world would there have been a need for multiple cops to dogpile a man yelling "i cant breathe?"

There's no dogpile in the video. Three cops took him down before he started yelling "I can't breathe," then once he was down the cops released him and just kept a few arms on him to prevent him from getting back up.

[Kimon²]

i mean for christs sake even Men's Wearhouse Spokesman got a trial, just trying to make the controversy go away as fast as possible won't do stuff.

No, it wouldn't. Just as you don't get a reckless driving charge for T-boning someone when you go at the wrong time at a stop sign.

this isn't an accurate brown townogy, you're implying that the cop did nothing wrong in this situation. at the very least, he broke NYPD policy.

Not really. It would if he'd actually been convicted of anything.

but the fact that this isn't the first time he's being accused of this means that he's doing something that makes people think he's a stuffty cop. this time, it just happened to involve him accidentally putting an asthmatic man in a chokehold, breaking nypd policy and killing a man.

Not really. It would if he'd actually been convicted of anything.
There's no dogpile in the video. Three cops took him down before he started yelling "I can't breathe," then once he was down the cops released him and just kept a few arms on him to prevent him from getting back up.

even two cops would have been too much in this situation, the man was in a chokehold yelling "i cant breathe" and continued to say it even when the chokehold was released and he was being pinned down. i know hindsight is 20/20, but about 75% of the force used was not necessary.

[$trinick]

this isn't an accurate brown townogy, you're implying that the cop did nothing wrong in this situation. at the very least, he broke NYPD policy.

The driver who t-boned another person straight up broke the law by going the wrong time at a stop sign. So in that scenario the driver actually did something more wrong than the cop.

but the fact that this isn't the first time he's being accused of this means that he's doing something that makes people think he's a stuffty cop. this time, it just happened to involve him accidentally putting an asthmatic man in a chokehold, breaking nypd policy and killing a man.

Everyone blames cops for being stuffty.

even two cops would have been too much in this situation, the man was in a chokehold yelling "i cant breathe" and continued to say it even when the chokehold was released and he was being pinned down. i know hindsight is 20/20, but about 75% of the force used was not necessary.

The man was not in a chokehold when he was yelling "I can't breathe." When you are in a chokehold, you literally can not speak. Even the resident professional confirms.

I can verify this. In CPR one of the things we are taught was not to intervene if the patient tells us they are choking or can't breathe. Them being able to say that indicates only a partial airway blockage. If somebody was actually unable to breathe, they would not be able to speak at all or in rasps as trinick said.

[Swat 3]

All what I know is this:

The police officer used an internally banned choke hold on someone with the knowledge that that stuff loving makes people black out.

It has been proven so many times that doing that can and might loving kill/injure someone. Putting this man in the chokehold punctured his wind pipe and caused him to have an asthma attack, end. No argument against it. It was loving caught on camera. And no, the police officer didn't continue to choke him when he was on the ground, he apparently released him. He was saying "he can't breath" in a not so raspy or squeeky voice, further concluding he had SEVERE difficulties breathing due to his asthma.

The officer that used this and indirectly killed Eric Garner should have been indicted and charged for voluntary manslaughter. You never use a chokehold to take someone down.

ninjaedit:
also, headlock my ass.

[Kimon²]

The driver who t-boned another person straight up broke the law by going the wrong time at a stop sign. So in that scenario the driver actually did something more wrong than the cop.

alright lets say the car was speeding. sure the person wouldnt have been t-boned if they didnt break the law, but this was also avoidable if the person had not been speeding. the speeding of course being the chokehold.

Everyone blames cops for being stuffty.

yeah especially if they actually are, like this guy is. at the very least he is a stuffty cop who can't even do a proper maneuver without accidentally killing someone in the process

The man was not in a chokehold when he was yelling "I can't breathe." When you are in a chokehold, you literally can not speak. Even the resident professional confirms.

did you see the video? when he was in the chokehold you could clearly hear garbled and distressed sounds coming from his throat, and the second they released him is when he started yelling that he couldnt breathe. let's say not knowing the man had asthma wasn't the cop's fault, but the man screaming that he couldn't breathe might have been the time to think "hm, maybe i did something to him that i wasnt aware of when i put him in this chokehold, which is already an extremely dangerous thing to do to someone, maybe i should get him help."
but then again, i dont think he's the kind of cop that would do that.

[Kimon²]

more to think about