Australia releases "no jab, no pay" policy

[Kansas]

What religion do you follow that bans vaccinations?

Well now let's say that a vaccine is released with bad side effects or a high chance of allergies. Parents are apparently forced to go through with it anyway or lose their healthcare.

I don't think you understand, my religion does not ban vaccinations, I plan on vaccinating my child, I am saying theres might.

[Ad Bot]

[Machaty]

Because people have the freedom to choose

It will never be your place to make that decision for them and pushing them by tax restrictions is unjustified just for not doing it your way

Let me make an brown townogy
It's illegal to harm your child correct? And it's illegal to harm other people, correct? By not vaccinating your child, that's what you're doing. When someone tells you that you're not allowed to hurt someone, do you respond with: "But I should have the right to CHOOSE whether or not I want to hurt someone." I don't think so.

[Kansas]

Let me make an brown townogy
It's illegal to harm your child correct? And it's illegal to harm other people, correct? By not vaccinating your child, that's what you're doing. When someone tells you that you're not allowed to hurt someone, do you respond with: "But I should have the right to CHOOSE whether or not I want to hurt someone." I don't think so.

You're calling me a murderer.

How dare you say I'd bring harm to my kin

[Machaty]

You're calling me a murderer.

You're a loving idiot. When did I say that? I didn't even mention murder lol

[Ipquarx]

Well now let's say that a vaccine is released with bad side effects or a high chance of allergies. Parents are apparently forced to go through with it anyway or lose their healthcare.

It's toootally understandable if it causes serious negative side effects, but again, it's been repeatedly shown that it hasn't. Saying that it could possibly lead to being forced to inject other (bad) things is ignoring the issue at hand, which is the anti-vaccination movement reducing herd immunity and infecting innocent children who have yet to be able to receive the vaccinations. This is a very good way to prevent that from happening anymore.

You're calling me a murderer.

He's saying if a child dies because you didn't vaccinate your child, you are responsible for the death of that child. That would not be murder, but (legally) manslaugter.

[Kansas]

You're a loving idiot. When did I say that? I didn't even mention murder lol

Haha, you're comparing me with a serial killer

[Kansas]

It's toootally understandable if it causes serious negative side effects, but again, it's been repeatedly shown that it hasn't. Saying that it could possibly lead to being forced to inject other (bad) things is ignoring the issue at hand, which is the anti-vaccination movement reducing herd immunity and infecting innocent children who have yet to be able to receive the vaccinations. This is a very good way to prevent that from happening anymore.
He's saying if a child dies because you didn't vaccinate your child, you are responsible for the death of that child. That would not be murder, but (legally) manslaugter.

No, it wouldn't.

[-Setro-]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEI3z4ldMjc
perfect

[Electrk.]

It's technically not the government, but the medical associations. They made the MMR vaccine.

Still, I don't like it or trust it.

Don't get me wrong: I'm pro-vaccination, but forcing people to do so by cutting their benefits is wrong. It's just another bill that forgets over poor people. One of the people in the article was even quoted as saying "Whatever we can do to increase vaccination rates is important." I don't like this "ends justify the means" attitude.

[Machaty]

Haha, you're comparing me with a serial killer

I never said that
You're making stuff up
I was simply saying that hurting people is against the law, and not getting your vaccinations hurt people, yet you complain about getting vaccinations and don't complain about not being able to hurt people.

[Ipquarx]

No, it wouldn't.

Explain to me IN DETAIL how it wouldn't, I'm listening.

Manslaughter is defined as so: "Manslaughter is a legal term for the killing of a human being, in a manner considered by law as less culpable than murder."

Culpability can be defined as the degree of which someone is morally or legally responsible for action and inaction.

From wikipedia:
(1) the act was intentional;
(2) the act and its consequences could have been controlled (i.e., the agent knew the likely consequences, the agent was not coerced, and the agent overcame hurdles to make the event happen); and
(3) the person provided no excuse or justification for the actions

Murder would be all 3. Manslaughter would be, for example, 2 and 3 only, excluding one. It's difficult to say how a court would rule on this, but it's definitely clear that if a child dies because you did not vaccinate your child (because for example, some celebrity said on the internet "vaccines are bad!"), you could have easily prevented it and that you have no medical excuse.

Still, I don't like it or trust it.
It's just another bill that forgets over poor people.

The MMR vaccine only costs like 20 bucks

[Kansas]

Explain to me IN DETAIL how it wouldn't, I'm listening.

Manslaughter is defined as so: "Manslaughter is a legal term for the killing of a human being, in a manner considered by law as less culpable than murder."

Culpability can be defined as the degree of which someone is morally or legally responsible for action and inaction.

From wikipedia:
(1) the act was intentional;
(2) the act and its consequences could have been controlled (i.e., the agent knew the likely consequences, the agent was not coerced, and the agent overcame hurdles to make the event happen); and
(3) the person provided no excuse or justification for the actions

Murder would be all 3. Manslaughter would be, for example, 2 and 3 only, excluding one. It's difficult to say how a court would rule on this, but it's definitely clear that if a child dies because you did not vaccinate your child (because for example, some celebrity said on the internet "vaccines are bad!"), you could have easily prevented it and that you have no medical excuse.
The MMR vaccine only costs like 20 bucks

You make valid points, but I would not be charged with man slaughter, and I wouldn't be a murderer, I'd like to make that very clear and ask of you to refrain from such misconceptions. I don't know where you come from but that would certainly not happen frequently enough in my country for it to become another debate.

I don't feel like debating this anymore, and you're probably right about the vacations, but people will always have the freedom to choose for their child, not the government.

[Rally]

I think letting people be anti-vac is a good thing. It's like genepool control. Eventually, dumbforgets wont exist because their genes will have died out.

Spiritual reasons.

Muslims have 'spiritual reasons' to blow up buildings. Your spiritual reasons don't mean jack if they endanger civilization as a whole.

I have the right to raise my child however I damn well please and you will not be the decider in my parental decisions

'muh fredoms'
You do not have the right to raise your child however you damn well please. You are required by law to keep your child safe. As far as I'm concerned, not vaccinating your child is endangering your child and should be against the law.

I would vaccinate my child because allowing the virus in a community will cause re-outbreaks but those who choose to not are entitled to it and economic restrictions are ridiclious

This made no sense, wtf? Are you saying that vaccinating children still leaves them vulnerable to other diseases? Yes, that is how modern medicine works. One day, those diseases will be treatable with vaccine as well.

Essentially they're saying because you are endangering society by not, you have to understand it's not about your child but society as a whole, that you're wrong for not doing it their way so they're going to force you to conform

'force you to conform'
They are forcing you to conform to herd immunity. AKA: an effectively proven way of curbing and stopping disease in any community. Trust me, I'm no conformist, I love death metal concerts, skateboards and plaid shirts as much as the next guy, but I also like being invulnerable to preventable disease. In the field of science, there is never a 'their way' to do anything, there is only a researched, studied and peer reviewed method of creating the most effective outcome.

Hate to break it to you but you've got your definition of 'freedom' wrong. It's not the same thing as anarchy. As a society which values respect and order we have implemented a series of rules and regulations that reasonably prevents you from massively impeding on the lives and lifestyles of others.

ALSO: Just so everybody knows, I don't agree with this policy. It only effects the lower class of people, even though they are rightfully being targeted, it doesn't curb the ignoramic menace as a whole. My solution is to imprison everyone who doesn't vaccinate their kids, but that's just me.

[Ipquarx]

I would not be charged with man slaughter, and I wouldn't be a murderer, I'd like to make that very clear and ask of you to refrain from such misconceptions.

How? I literally just showed you that you quite clearly could. But again, you aren't going to debate with me.

[Kansas]

I think letting people be anti-vac is a good thing. It's like genepool control. Eventually, dumbforgets wont exist because their genes will have died out.

Muslims have 'spiritual reasons' to blow up buildings. Your spiritual reasons don't mean jack if they endanger civilization as a whole.

'muh fredoms'
You do not have the right to raise your child however you damn well please. You are required by law to keep your child safe. As far as I'm concerned, not vaccinating your child is endangering your child and should be against the law.

This made no sense, wtf? Are you saying that vaccinating children still leaves them vulnerable to other diseases? Yes, that is how modern medicine works. One day, those diseases will be treatable with vaccine as well.

'force you to conform'
They are forcing you to conform to herd immunity. AKA: an effectively proven way of curbing and stopping disease in any community. Trust me, I'm no conformist, I love death metal concerts, skateboards and plaid shirts as much as the next guy, but I also like being invulnerable to preventable disease. In the field of science, there is never a 'their way' to do anything, there is only a researched, studied and peer reviewed method of creating the most effective outcome.

Hate to break it to you but you've got your definition of 'freedom' wrong. It's not the same thing as anarchy. As a society which values respect and order we have implemented a series of rules and regulations that reasonably prevents you from massively impeding on the lives and lifestyles of others.

ALSO: Just so everybody knows, I don't agree with this policy. It only effects the lower class of people, even though they are rightfully being targeted, it doesn't curb the ignoramic menace as a whole. My solution is to imprison everyone who doesn't vaccinate their kids, but that's just me.

I actually do have the right and forget you, I will raise him safely to what my terms are of safety. And no, there are different kinds of Muslims, all with different interpretations of the Koran

How? I literally just showed you that you quite clearly could. But again, you aren't going to debate with me.

Because it doesn't happen that way in US courts unless I am intentionally beating my child.