[POLL] do you think the confederate flag should be banned in the united states?

[otto-san]

moreover, what purpose does it actually serve unless it's actually relevant to an existing government entity for purposes other than historic preservation or w/e

i don't see why a government building should fly the flag of a centuries-disbanded government that existed out of a long-settled dispute between two parts of a nation (primarily, of course, out of questionable ethical economic practices) and violently rebelled, other than to suggest that that now-irrelevant (other than for historical observation) government entity is still receiving their respect

which is understandably strange?

[Ad Bot]

[Planr]

i don't think any form of censorship should be allowed in the us

This, as long as we're talking about censorship of viewpoints, beliefs and ideas, and not simply disturbing content, and even then disturbing content should not be 100% restricted.

But at the same time, I believe that the Confederate Flag has no place being flown on government property. Imagine how people would react in the EU if the German government flew the national socialist flag on their buildings.

[Ronin]

So it has historical merit. Great, we already knew that.

That doesn't mean that you can hang it over government buildings and pretend like it isn't the symbol of an army that was explicitly created to protect slavery.

Actually it's truly tasteless if you consider it was hung over the state house in Columbia, South Carolina in 1962... as an act of opposition to the civil rights movement.

:^|

[SWAT One]

Flown by any government entity or any entity overseen by the US government and its subsequent subdivisions, support for ban.
Private expression, supported.

[Nomel]

So, let me get this straight:
Working in a stuffty sweatshop, voluntarily, for too many hours a day is comparable to backbreaking, involuntary labor performed all-day at the mercy of someone who will literally kill you if you don't do it?

people didn't chose to work in factories and mines, they needed food and shelter. workers in the north were also beaten like slaves, but they also could lose their arms, die of respiratory illness and they had to live in unsanitary cities. It's also important to note that most accounts of slavery in textbooks came from the most extreme slave owners.

Southern states such as Louisiana, had life expectancies [for blacks] around 29 years

Cholera, tuberculosis, typhus, typhoid, and influenza ravaged through new industrial towns, especially in poor working-class neighborhoods.


Even though there were more doctors in the cities, life expectancy was much lower there than in the country.

[Harm94]

The fact that it's not 1862 anymore does not mean that the flag is any less a symbol of racism and slavery.

I've seen more klansmen run around with old glory than stars and bars/battle flag. Let them fly near the battle sites and memorials, getting rid of them is only going to make more people angry who probably turn to cnn and say Obama is a national socialist.

[ZombiLoin]

people didn't chose to work in factories and mines, they needed food and shelter.

It was possible for Northern workers to leave their jobs, marry at their leisure, and appear before a criminal court in a legal trial. Slaves had no such rights or luxuries.

workers in the north were also beaten like slaves, but they also could lose their arms, die of respiratory illness and they had to live in unsanitary cities.

I don't think workers in the North were beaten with bullwhips or cat-o-nine tails for poor performance on the factory floor but if you have any accounts of that I'd be happy to investigate it.

It's also important to note that most accounts of slavery in textbooks came from the most extreme slave owners.

Flagrant bullstuff, needs a source right now.

[Planr]

Anyome who thinks slavery was seriously that black and white needs to stop reading those left-wing school textbooks and do some research of their own for once.
It would be arrogant to assume that all southern slave owners abused or even hated blacks.

[ZombiLoin]

Anyome who thinks slavery was seriously that black and white needs to stop reading those left-wing school textbooks and do some research of their own for once.
It would be arrogant to assume that all southern slave owners abused or even hated blacks.

>complains about people not doing research
>makes blatantly un-researched claims

try harder.

[Tayasaurus]

left-wing school textbooks

do not question the infallible North education system.

[Oasis]

Anyome who thinks slavery was seriously that black and white needs to stop reading those left-wing school textbooks and do some research of their own for once.
It would be arrogant to assume that all southern slave owners abused or even hated blacks.

Anyone who assumes all slaves were grotesquely mistreated is an idiot.

Then again, any person held in slavery without the freedom to direct their own life wass being abused on a deeper level as a human being. If you take another person's freedom away from them, you're abusing them.

[SeventhSandwich]

people didn't chose to work in factories and mines, they needed food and shelter.

They did choose to work in factories and mines though. That's the definition of employment. Nobody forces you into that career from birth until death.

but they also could lose their arms, die of respiratory illness and they had to live in unsanitary cities.

And you don't think slaves lost limbs, died of illnesses, and lived in squalor?

It's also important to note that most accounts of slavery in textbooks came from the most extreme slave owners.

It happens to sound a lot like you're taking Southern Paternalism seriously. The reason why that view is bullstuff and rejected by 100% of historians is because slave rebellions and escapes were rampant in the South. If they were treated favorably like you think they were, they would have had no reason to risk their lives escaping.

[Aces]

I think it's important to note that working in the North wasn't as bad as being a slave in the South but still a very disadvantageous lifestyle considering that as a slave you'd have to live in ghettos and work for pennies on the dollar.

[Ipquarx]

They did choose to work in factories and mines though. That's the definition of employment. Nobody forces you into that career from birth until death.

If you have literally no choice but to work in extremely harsh conditions for extremely little money if you want to survive, are you really free to do what you want?

[ZombiLoin]

If you have literally no choice but to work in extremely harsh conditions for extremely little money if you want to survive, are you really free to do what you want?

A free man is free to quit his job once you have enough money and a) Start his own business, b) Stake out his own land in the frontier, or c) Be homeless and probably die. Slaves were unable to even quit being slaves (unless they were incredibly lucky), unable to start their own businesses, unable to travel and own land (unless they escaped, lol) or even waiting for old age to kill them.

Also, free men were allowed to read and write. Pretty big thing, right?

If you're honestly comparing forced labor under Slavery to working as a free man then I honestly don't know what to say to you.