POLITICS & DONALD Annoying Orange MEGATHREAD

[Drydess]

actually i can agree in principle with maybe prioritizing/helping people who are more so guaranteed to find success here, i just don't see why we gotta make it an exclusive club to those people. we already do that tho. if you impose stricter restrictions for everyone, i imagine the reality is that you're probably just going to get more people who come illegally instead

it's all a plan to make the wall actually useful in a form

[Ad Bot]

[beachbum111111]

you right. forget em. if they ain't american they ain't matter, right dumbass?

Yes lets just let everyone in, don't vet them, and give them all money so they can leech off the economy and lead us to collapse. Brilliant thinking handicap

[Cappytaino]

is this actually the case? i wasn't under the impression that there was any budgetary reason for quotas

The immigration process consumes government time, resources, and in effect, money. USCIS is working on a budget as every other government agency. Prefiltering applications for residency and setting quotas aids in the conservation of government resources so as to not stretch them so thin.

Initially, however, the Immigration Act of 1924 was created "to preserve the ideal of American homogeneity." In other words, you are right, initially quotas were created in an attempt to limit the entry of certain groups into the country to prevent culture from shifting too dramatically and to allow the incoming migrants to assimilate to "American Culture." The effect they have today, however, is to reduce strain on resources that would otherwise be wasted sifting through mountains of applications, mostly from people that the country would not benefit at all from taking in. A soft deterrent, if you will. Of course, quotas won't deter high achieving individuals from applying, as they likely figure they have a fair chance.

increased human capital = better economy, right? how can we not afford to take in more?

Increased human capital in the unskilled labor sector isn't beneficial to anyone. This is why adhering to strict standards in filtering applications for residency is a good idea. One can ensure that an even mix of educated folks/those in a skilled trade can come through, along with very small numbers of unskilled laborers.

i mean, if they manage to get their way here, absolutely
if someone isn't harmful to society then introducing them into it can only benefit
anyways i don't get why you think that we don't already have this happening without the extra unnecessary and unfair constraints that RAISE adds

Filtering applications for residency and citizenship isn't unfair. That's like saying it's unfair that Ivy League schools expect applicants to be high achieving with a well-balanced life and don't accept 1.5 GPA students.

High standards aren't inherently unjust. Immigration is a privilege, not a right.

[Renderman In A Bowl]

Woah I exist

[Drydess]

having such high standards for immigration is unfair because it means that only those who are clearly guaranteed to not forget up in life (upper class people for the most part) are gonna be accepted. if that's just to you then i dunno what else to say
immigration is a privilege as it should be but america isn't a secret club that exclusively powerful people are allowed in

[Karl Marx]

are you suggesting that the federal government's relationship with immigrants is comparable to that of a mother and her child?

Sure. Both have an obligation to serve the beings residing within them.

Yes lets just let everyone in, don't vet them, and give them all money so they can leech off the economy and lead us to collapse. Brilliant thinking handicap

Well now that you mention it, allowing capitalism to collapse sounds really nice.
Unfortunately for me, immigrants take grueling construction and trucking jobs that most Americans would never take if they had the choice of a better job, in exchange for the tiny amounts of money we shell out to them in return. We're benefiting from this more than anything, and we would benefit even more if we allowed them to become tax-paying citizens more easily.

In terms of tax-paying, though, we would still get more tax money if we actually taxed rich people, as opposed to squeezing it out of immigrants.

[otto-san]

The immigration process consumes government time, resources, and in effect, money. USCIS is working on a budget as every other government agency. Prefiltering applications for residency and setting quotas aids in the conservation of government resources so as to not stretch them so thin.

Initially, however, the Immigration Act of 1924 was created "to preserve the ideal of American homogeneity." In other words, you are right, initially quotas were created in an attempt to limit the entry of certain groups into the country to prevent culture from shifting too dramatically and to allow the incoming migrants to assimilate to "American Culture." The effect they have today, however, is to reduce strain on resources that would otherwise be wasted sifting through mountains of applications, mostly from people that the country would not benefit at all from taking in. A soft deterrent, if you will. Of course, quotas won't deter high achieving individuals from applying, as they likely figure they have a fair chance.

that would also be eased by just making the immigration process easier and simpler, tho obvs we still need to have some kind of procedure in place, so expense is inevitable. i'd want to see the actual breakdown of the numbers here before deciding one way or another

[Nonnel]

Yes lets just let everyone in, don't vet them, and give them all money so they can leech off the economy and lead us to collapse. Brilliant thinking handicap

strawman
i'm saying, don't make "rich and educated" the criteria for getting in the country

Increased human capital in the unskilled labor sector isn't beneficial to anyone. This is why adhering to strict standards in filtering applications for residency is a good idea. One can ensure that an even mix of educated folks/those in a skilled trade can come through, along with very small numbers of unskilled laborers.

There are still tons of jobs in farming, service, and maintenance that don't require skill. the money they earn in those jobs is spent on goods and taxes. seems like a boost to me.

[Cappytaino]

having such high standards for immigration is unfair because it means that only those who are clearly guaranteed to not forget up in life (upper class people for the most part) are gonna be accepted. if that's just to you then i dunno what else to say

Again, high standards are not inherently unfair.

Why are there no NBA players under 5'9"? Does that mean NBA teams are unfairly discriminating against short men? No, it simply means that basketball teams have an idea of certain attributes which lead players to be successful in the league, height being a clear factor.

It doesn't make the Spurs hateful or unfair to not sign shorter men. It just makes sense to hold certain standards.

strawman
i'm saying, don't make "rich and educated" the criteria for getting in the country
There are still tons of jobs in farming, service, and maintenance that don't require skill. the money they earn in those jobs is spent on goods and taxes. seems like a boost to me.

If only many of those jobs weren't being currently worked by illegals that get paid under the table and in effect don't pay tax on their income.

God forbid we pay those workers over the table and make them pay taxes and comply with minimum wage legislation. The millenials will have a heart attack when avocados double in price and Chipotle goes out of business.

[Nonnel]

If only many of those jobs weren't being currently worked by illegals that get paid under the table and in effect don't pay tax on their income.

God forbid we pay those workers over the table and make them pay taxes and comply with minimum wage legislation. The millenials will have a heart attack when avocados double in price and Chipotle goes out of business.

so naturalize them
even illegal immigrants pay for stuff and add to the economy

[Drydess]

i'm not saying that high standards are inherently unfair, just in this case it is
nba players have gotta be tall because that's just the sport. you don't have to be rich in order to be productive, that should be evidence enough that high standards aren't necessary

[Karl Marx]

God forbid we pay those workers over the table and make them pay taxes and comply with minimum wage legislation. The millenials will have a heart attack when avocados double in price and Chipotle goes out of business.

Funny that you mention that, as paying people equally leading to economic failures is one of the major reasons for capitalism being unsustainable.
On the flip side, not giving workers enough money kills your demand and also lowers profits. I wonder why capitalism has frequent cyclical crises.

[HellHound]

capitalism is unsustainable?
huh, I can't imagine communism being any better - what with multiple countries collapsing and ending the lives of many millions of people.

[otto-san]

If only many of those jobs weren't being currently worked by illegals that get paid under the table and in effect don't pay tax on their income.

God forbid we pay those workers over the table and make them pay taxes and comply with minimum wage legislation. The millenials will have a heart attack when avocados double in price and Chipotle goes out of business.

p sure even liberal opinions would see that as an issue, tho instead of saying the illegals should be deported, i'd say the employers should be held accountable for offering illegally low wages, and paths to citizenship should be widened so the immigrants can be held accountable for taxes

[Cappytaino]

so naturalize them
even illegal immigrants pay for stuff and add to the economy

while also taking advantage of the public school system, protection of civil servants such as the Police, local fire department, etc, in some instances get college scholarships funded in part or in full by public money, visit the emergency room with no documented income and thus the burden falls onto the hospital and in effect taxpayers if a public hospital, drive on roads and walk on sidewalks paid for by public funds, go to the library, etc.

Even if they aren't abusing social programs, they are still being a drain on taxpayer funds because they are taking advantage of services funded with public money obtained from the taxpayers.

Naturalizing all the illegals is a slap in the face to those that spend their time and money following the law. I'm not for creating deportation squads to round up peaceful noncitizens either, but illegals caught with a criminal record/booked for a crime should face immediate deportation. Hold employers accountable for tax evasion and hiring of noncitizens as well and penalize those that do so knowingly.

p sure even liberal opinions would see that as an issue, tho instead of saying the illegals should be deported, i'd say the employers should be held accountable for offering illegally low wages, and paths to citizenship should be widened so the immigrants can be held accountable for taxes

Of course. Only deport once they commit a crime, saves time and money, but don't reward them with amnesty. Penalize employers knowingly hiring illegal immigrants and make them accountable for the burden of taxes they in effect evade.