POLITICS & DONALD Annoying Orange MEGATHREAD

[Foxscotch]

The millenials will have a heart attack when avocados double in price and Chipotle goes out of business.

yeah along with every other crop. that'll sure make it easier for people already having trouble putting food on the table. but who cares about them, right? I mean, they're poor, yeuch

[Ad Bot]

[Cappytaino]

yeah along with every other crop. that'll sure make it easier for people already having trouble putting food on the table. but who cares about them, right? I mean, they're poor, yeuch

illegals undercutting the wages of resident citizens in low wage/unskilled jobs forgets those people more than rising food prices would.

Why hire a citizen for $9/hr and have to deal with healthcare and taxes and all that icky stuff when you can give Juan $6/hr under the table and not deal with any of the aforementioned bureaucratic headache.

Construction, agriculture, hospitality, and increasingly, the foodservice industry are being swamped with illegals

[Drydess]

forget dude i didn't even see that. id be contemplating life if chipotle closed, that stuff is the best regardless of the plague or whatever living in it

[Nonnel]

illegals caught with a criminal record/booked for a crime should face immediate deportation. Hold employers accountable for tax evasion and hiring of noncitizens as well and penalize those that do so knowingly.

sounds good to me

Of course. Only deport once they commit a crime, saves time and money, but don't reward them with amnesty. Penalize employers knowingly hiring illegal immigrants and make them accountable for the burden of taxes they in effect evade.

If someone has been living here for years doing hard, honest work for garbage wages, does it not seem right to welcome them? Seems like that would prove them to be economically productive.

[Karl Marx]

capitalism is unsustainable?
huh, I can't imagine communism being any better - what with multiple countries collapsing and ending the lives of many millions of people.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QnIsdVaCnUE
Luckily you don't have to imagine Capitalism being worse.

[Foxscotch]

illegals caught with a criminal record/booked for a crime should face immediate deportation.

man I missed this. booked? you mean, arrested? forget happened to due process?

[otto-san]

you also don't gotta give them immediate citizenship, but if you're acknowledging that the law you made before was stuff, then you can at least give people the decency of not enforcing it by booting em out

[Cappytaino]

sounds good to me
If someone has been living here for years doing hard, honest work for garbage wages, does it not seem right to welcome them? Seems like that would prove them to be economically productive.

But once again, they have attempted to bypass the bureaucracy and legislation for their own gain. What kind of example does that set for those that spend their time and money bringing themselves and their family through the legal process? It's a slap in the face for those people. I'm not for immediately deporting illegals without a criminal record, that would consume a tremendous amount of time and money, but they should not be given amnesty.

They made the decision to enter the country without due process, after all. Even though they have been productive while living in the United States, they have not been paying tax on their income while enjoying taxpayer-funded public services. That should not be rewarded. The law must be upheld.

It's like if you lie about your SAT scores to get into a college, and even though you get pretty good grades, the faculty figure out you fudged your scores. Should they let you stay?

you also don't gotta give them immediate citizenship, but if you're acknowledging that the law you made before was stuff, then you can at least give people the decency of not enforcing it by booting em out

that's my point. No immediate deportation unless a crime is committed, but no amnesty.

man I missed this. booked? you mean, arrested? forget happened to due process?

everyone deserves due process, but criminal non-citizen residents should be deported. They've abused the privilege of residency nobody gave them in the first place. I really don't care about those that come and don't commit a crime, although they are still a lesser issue. Illegals that commit a crime deserve deportation. It doesn't consume the resources of the prison system and rids the country of someone that 1. doesn't have the requisite documents to stay and 2. has proven themselves to have criminal/malicious patterns of behavior. I don't see the problem with deporting illegals that commit a crime.

[Drydess]

man I missed this. booked? you mean, arrested? forget happened to due process?

well from a legal standpoint they're not US citizens

[Cappytaino]

well from a legal standpoint they're not US citizens

technically they aren't exactly entitled to the full rights of a US citizen beyond a very basic set of protections any visitor to the country is afforded. Due process, however, is one of the rights you are entitled to IIRC.

That being said, I would emphasize the "speedy" portion of the right to trial. It shouldn't take much time to rule that a noncitizen with a criminal record should be deported.

[Foxscotch]

everyone deserves due process, but criminal non-citizen residents should be deported. They've abused the privilege of residency nobody gave them in the first place. I really don't care about those that come and don't commit a crime, although they are still a lesser issue. Illegals that commit a crime deserve deportation. It doesn't consume the resources of the prison system and rids the country of someone that 1. doesn't have the requisite documents to stay and 2. has proven themselves to have criminal/malicious patterns of behavior. I don't see the problem with deporting illegals that commit a crime.

being arrested doesn't mean you committed a crime

[Drydess]

technically they aren't exactly entitled to the full rights of a US citizen beyond a very basic set of protections any visitor to the country is afforded. Due process, however, is one of the rights you are entitled to IIRC.

That being said, I would emphasize the "speedy" portion of the right to trial. It shouldn't take much time to rule that a noncitizen with a criminal record should be deported.

oh forget i haven't been watching enough politics shows about that. mb

[Nonnel]

I get what you're getting at. To tie this back to where we started: couldn't we lower the amount of illegal citizens coming into the country if we streamlined the immigration process and didn't add more needless criteria? Less people would see legally immigrating as a waste of time and effort if it wasn't as bogged down as it is. If that were the case, then I would agree with you that illegal citizens shouldn't get amnesty.

[Cappytaino]

being arrested doesn't mean you committed a crime

Yes, but I said "having a criminal record" which implies conviction either prior or present.

If you're undocumented, drink and drive, and hit a pedestrian, you can't really deny that you committed a crime. That being said, in this circumstance, due process should take place, a conviction can be made, and deportation in lieu of jail is an appropriate consequence.

In choosing to commit a crime, one shows complete disregard for the life or property of others.

I get what you're getting at. To tie this back to where we started: couldn't we lower the amount of illegal citizens coming into the country if we streamlined the immigration process and didn't add more needless criteria? Less people would see legally immigrating as a waste of time and effort if it wasn't as bogged down as it is. If that were the case, then I would agree with you that illegal citizens shouldn't get amnesty.

If I'm reading into this correctly, you're saying that if we keep immigration standards as they currently stand, yet streamline the process to facilitate a higher volume of applications to be examined more quickly, we'd end up with less illegals.

This seems to be half-true. If the application process were easier, it would certainly lead more people to at least try to apply before crossing the border, but the real problem is that there is still adequate incentive to make illegally crossing into the country sound like a good option. It's pretty simple behavioral economics; provided there is still an incentive for illegal immigration, people will still immigrate illegally, hire illegals, etc. Removing the incentives would be a fairly more effective deterrent (force sanctuary cities to comply with the law, enforce standing immigration law, no amnesty, deport criminal noncitizens convicted of a crime, etc).

The immigration process is stuff but it needs to be improved in conjunction with reducing incentives for people to enter the country illegally and reducing incentives for employers to hire noncitizens.

[otto-san]

i think if immigration is made a sufficiently easy and fair process, more strictly enforcing illegal immigration laws would be much less controversial