POLITICS & DONALD Annoying Orange MEGATHREAD

[Juncoph]

what


2 kool 4 u

national socialists are pretty stuffty at being evil if they only managed to kill 6 million people in a decade

11 million*

not including the losses from ww2, which the national socialists directly caused*

I'd say both communism and national socialistsm are bad, but if you weigh the two together national socialistsm comes out as the more inherently evil ideology

p much this

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[Deus Ex]

Okay but is anyone gonna answer the question
Can we or can we not punch the stuff out of a communist solely for being a communist

[Maxwell.]

what's wrong with keeping what we have in all first world countries right now, and not go beyond it

[Khaz]

17 million* first of all

communism isn't inherently evil because it's just a stupid economic system that needs fixing (if fixing it will even fix it) yes it kills people but thats because it's flawed not because "this economic system has the sole purpose of killing people who are ethnically inferior"

national socialistsm is evil and people die because that's what it stands for. communism on the other hand is just handicapped and people die because its handicapped

[TristanLuigi]

not all tyrants stufflord

but yeah national socialism specifically is literally outright evil. general fascism is on par w/ communism though

i would definitely agree with this in the case of authoritarian communism (stalinism, maoism)
there are other forms, however, which aren't on the same level as fascism and stalinism, though still unlikely to work

[IkeTheGeneric]

Okay but is anyone gonna answer the question
Can we or can we not punch the stuff out of a communist solely for being a communist

hell yes

[Red Spy]

communism isn't inherently evil because it's just a stupid economic system that needs fixing (if fixing it will even fix it)

theft of other people's property is evil. you literally can't have communism without taking people's stuff at gunpoint.

yes it kills people but thats because it's flawed not because "this economic system has the sole purpose of killing people who are ethnically inferior"

i love how you phrase it like this even though communism has killed like 110 million people over all. nothing major though. after all, the national socialists killed far more!

[Deus Ex]

17 million* first of all

communism isn't inherently evil because it's just a stupid economic system that needs fixing (if fixing it will even fix it) yes it kills people but thats because it's flawed not because "this economic system has the sole purpose of killing people who are ethnically inferior"

national socialistsm is evil and people die because that's what it stands for. communism on the other hand is just handicapped and people die because its handicapped

Okay but communism is an economic system that somehow manages to lead to tyrant dictators removing power from the people, which leads to abuse of power, which leads to a bunch of people dying
It is literally happening in real time in Venezuela
There's no more excuses to be made, communism does not work, at all, ever

[Tactical Nuke]

If these "leftist" institutions (that aren't really leftist or socialist by any stretch, really) had as much power as you assign them, Hillary Clinton would be president.

What has Annoying Orange done in office? Not a goddamn thing. It's because every time they make a motion to do his campaign promises, the people in the media and the entertainment industry and such throw a collective hissy fit so loud that the senators think they're going to lose their constituency and they chicken out. It makes judges block legislation like the travel ban every single time it gets out the door.

And even if everything I said is false, the fact that future generations are being taught, entertained (with air quotes nowadays) and informed by leftists shows how much power they actually have. Government legislation can be overturned. It's not permanent.

[TristanLuigi]

theft of other people's property is evil. you literally can't have communism without taking people's stuff at gunpoint.

setting aside an argument about whether it actually is theft, are you seriously equating theft and ethnic genocide right now?

[Red Spy]

setting aside an argument about whether it actually is theft, are you seriously equating theft and ethnic genocide right now?

he said communism isn't inherently evil and i said theft is evil. don't put stuff in my mouth

[TristanLuigi]

What has Annoying Orange done in office? Not a goddamn thing. It's because every time they make a motion to do his campaign promises, the people in the media and the entertainment industry and such throw a collective hissy fit so loud that the senators think they're going to lose their constituency and they chicken out.

oh no, the media is serving their purpose, which is to be a check on government
whatever shall we loving do

It makes judges block legislation like the travel ban every single time it gets out the door.

they haven't "made" judges do anything

And even if everything I said is false, the fact that future generations are being taught, entertained (with air quotes nowadays) and informed

DAE EDUCATION IS LEFTIST PROPAGANDA??? XDXD

by leftists shows how much power they actually have.

again, implying liberalism is left-wing

Government legislation can be overturned. It's not permanent.

perhaps not, but the effects can be

he said communism isn't inherently evil and i said theft is evil. don't put stuff in my mouth

this argument is chiefly about whether communism is "more evil" than national socialistsm

[Khaz]

an interesting read while doing research:
i have no idea how much of this is even valid but I found it interesting, that's all

Of those who hate or fear "communism" or "socialism", I've yet to meet one who actually knows what exactly communism is. They seem to have this crazy idea about what Marx had in mind, the evil regime where the state took all your money and controlled your every move, the horrifying Orwellian dystopia of total control with absolutely no human rights.

Poor Marx... (well, blame Stalin and Mao for it, they ruined communism for good).

When Marx first raised the idea of social progression, he believed communism was the final stage of social evolution. The idea is that society would go from primitive society to slavery to feudal society to capitalism to socialism and eventually reach communism. In his hypothesis, Marx predicted human society would reach communism AFTER we had cumulated great material wealth. The exact words he use were "the utmost abundance of material". He believed that only when we have more than enough resources for everyone, will we reach a society in which all the material goods are allocated by state government. There's no limit what or how much you can take. The state will provide you with whatever want, food, housing, clothing, decoration, entertainment... and you do whatever you're willing to do to contribute. There's no currency, there's no social status, there's no poor or rich, your every possible need is provided by the government. You go to work not for earning livelihood, but instead, you work for pure self fulfillment or self improvement. Your contribution to the society has no connection to what you receive from the society. You can, by all means, do nothing, just enjoy life. But Marx believed people will want to contribute, for their own self fulfillment. This was the Utopian picture Marx had painted when he first discussed communism.

As you can see, there's really nothing evil about this idea. In a way, it's very similar to the society pictured in Star Trek, in which people work to advance human technology and knowledge as a whole, instead of working for material wealth and personal gain. It is a very idealistic society, and everyone is happy.

Unfortunately, the communist ideal was hijacked by the USSR and "communist" China, and they really gave communism a bad name. Both are NOT communism or even socialism. The USSR and China before 1980s were a dysfunctional combination of planned economy + totalitarianism + several failed trials of socialism; The USSR dissolved and Russia went on to become a full fledged capitalist country, while China went through the economic revolution and became a State Capitalism + Totalitarian/Oligarchy country. I have no doubt leaders of both countries really did want to follow Marx's theory and establish a socialist or communist society for their people. But the problem is that, as Marx had made it very clear, the foundation of socialism and communism is an "unlimited amount of material wealth". That's why the society needs to go through capitalism to accumulate that wealth. And that's also why none of the current countries will ever reach that any time soon.

But the leaders had already put themselves in the communist boat when they gathered the people and started their freaking revolution. They called themselves communists to win over poor, working class people. Both parties had used Marx's idea to attract the then vulnerable and oppressed factory workers and landless peasants. In the case of China, peasants join the party to start the revolution, kill the evil landlords and take their lands! It's a quite tempting idea, and many people did join up. Only to find out, they didn't end up actually owning the land, the State owned it for them. The State assigned them to work on those fields and the State paid their "salaries".

I think what really scared western capitalism was the anarchy, the unknown, the possibility that their own people could rise up and take rich people's property, just like Chinese did. Think about the Russian revolution, and the Chinese revolution, neither ended well for the wealthy people. It's like French Revolution and there's no Napoleon to come in and save the day. The raw chaotic power from these revolutions was really scary. If the people of Russian and China can rise up under the name of "communism", storm the mansions and loot the stores, what's stopping American poor people doing the same thing?

And Marx somehow said that communism will be the gravedigger of capitalism, that doesn't help either. I think what Marx meant was for the society to evolve, so eventually communism would replace capitalism when we're ready, like capitalism replaced feudalism. He didn't meant to have the two be arch enemies and have eternal good vs. evil fight over who rules the world. But somehow, people started to see it as such, both superpowers consider themselves to be the good, and the opposite side to be the evil.

Communism is not evil. What people considered to be "communism", is actually totalitarianism or anarchy, which is actually pretty horrible.

setting aside an argument about whether it actually is theft, are you seriously equating theft and ethnic genocide right now?

There's no more excuses to be made, communism does not work, at all, ever

i mean i never said it did because it doesnt work

all this post really tells me is that you still fail to read what you're responding to

@red spy

setting aside an argument about whether it actually is theft, are you seriously equating theft and ethnic genocide right now?

[Red Spy]

DAE EDUCATION IS LEFTIST PROPAGANDA??? XDXD

he's talking about hollywood you donut

this argument is chiefly about whether communism is "more evil" than national socialistsm

he was specifically talking about the evils of communism. again, don't put stuff in my mouth

[Juncoph]

17 million* first of all

wtf

could've sworn wikipedia said 11 but yeah you're right. wonder where i got 11 from

as for the "muh real communism" stuff- no true scotsman