Net neutrality shenanigins are happening.

Author Topic: Net neutrality shenanigins are happening.  (Read 38037 times)

have you learned anything about the other side that would help us be more informed

have you learned anything about the other side that would help us be more informed
i dont know enough about any side to be any kind of "more informed". judging from how my phone call was handled, you should call congress yourself and see what your local representative has to say. im sure they'd have no problem having an actual logical discussion about this with any of you. just be courteous, let them speak, and treat them with respect. i would have talked longer if i didnt have to go back into work

aside all of this, though. i don't see how the techniques used in a poster would serve any kind of harm, rather spreading awareness of that this is a problem
its not inherently a problem. of anything i see it as a dominoes effect: spreading awareness with fear, especially en masse, leads to irrationality, which then leads to harm

would you rather scare someone into believing you, or convince them to believe you on their own merit?
« Last Edit: December 14, 2017, 07:59:31 PM by mod-man »



would you rather scare someone into believing you, or convince them to believe you on their own merit?

to find yourself, you must think for yourself.

« Last Edit: December 23, 2017, 09:44:11 PM by SwiftHyena2593 »

But ur wearing a red scarf and have red nose
it's not a scarf you mother forgeter it's a harness
but yea
red's cool



what is it, i cant have fun or something?
To be fair, OrangeMan was told to stop too

Stop
lil offtopic cause this is the only time i see you arent dead.

any word from the good ol' monster rpg

what is it, i cant have fun or something?

"why are people telling me to stop because i spam the same stuffty meme multiple times after being confronted about it"

he mentioned that, while he respected and was happy with battleforthenet because they are doing their best to express their opinion as anyone with a strong opinion on something should, he isn't happy with how they aren't explaining both sides of the issue. he said they're pushing a heavy left narrative. he said he wants people to understand that its not just republicans who have voted to appeal but its democrats voting to appeal too. he thinks battleforthenet has created an aura of fear with their design:

black background, big red and white parapraphs talking about how the FCC is "gutting net rules for new fees, throttling, and censorship". and also asking people to spread images like:

as a graphic designer, i can understand how hard wording like this could lead someone to believe its intimidating.
That's a completely unreasonable position for him to take. I'm sorry but it's just true, and let me explain exactly why in detail:
1. battleforthenet only states pure facts on their website. The closest they ever come to stating an opinion is the following:
"They are Team Cable. They want to end net neutrality, to control & tax the Internet."

Even this, however, is true. It's an objective fact that they want to end net neutrality, and that to end net neutrality gives them the power to control and tax what you are able to see on the internet. In fact, for them to go and encourage the FCC to put back net neutrality (and have it work) would actually be against the law for them, as the board of directors and the CEO of these telecom companies have a legally binding fiduciary duty to do everything in their power to make more profit. If they were to go back on that, they'd be sued by shareholders for massive amounts of money (equal to the amount of money that could have been made had they not put Net Neutrality back in).

2. I 100% support looking at both sides of an argument. I say that because almost universally, there is a sense in which opposition to (almost) any particular idea can be reasonable. There can be downsides, and people, no matter how strange it is, could prioritize those downsides over the upsides. However we need to take this in context. This idea of "looking at both sides" is for an individual trying to form an opinion on a subject, as a sort of internal debate. In the context of just an individual reading around on the internet by themselves, I agree. But battleforthenet is an activism site, trying to prevent the permanent repeal of Net Neutrality, not a debate website. Sure, one could argue that including common counterarguments and then showing how they're false would be beneficial for a few people who're trying to make up their minds, but that wouldn't satiate your representative (as it's still presenting one side as fact), and it would merely serve to distract others who have already made up their minds from the fact that not having Net Neutrality truly is a net negative on any capitalist society from both a market perspective and a consumer perspective. They're not being disingenuous by not including common counterarguments.

3. There's no argument to be had over whether their intention is really to revoke net neutrality itself. Sure, one could reasonably(ish) argue that maybe, for some contrived reason they don't like the wording of the current Net Neutrality regulation. That's fine (even though I strongly disagree with it), but what's not fine is the fact that the FCC's intention is not to fix that for you. They're not trying to improve it, they're trying to repeal it and never have it come back again. Their intention really is to get rid of Net Neutrality itself.

4. The design of the website isn't "scary," nor is it intended to be. It's a predominantly white, light blue & royal blue theme with red emphasized text (chosen because of its strong, yet not ugly looking contrast with the royal blue background) in order to catch the users attention for key points. All of the emphasized text, including the "good" text that's filled with optimism for the future of the internet and the "bad" describing the urgent current situation, is red. Two of the four ISP company logos already have red in them anyway, there's no reason to believe that it's anything other than a small edit to make the logos fit in with the style of the website.

Given these facts, all the steps they've taken have been entirely reasonable, and I believe most would argue necessary in order to get the public motivated towards fighting this. For them to have satisfied your representative would have required basically turning it into a "change my mind" website, with false counterarguments that distract from the reality of the situation and needlessly changing the design of the website.

1. battleforthenet only states pure facts on their website. The closest they ever come to stating an opinion is the following:
"They are Team Cable. They want to end net neutrality, to control & tax the Internet."
im sure they do, but the facts aren't the point. there are two dominating opinions right now: net neutrality should be repealed, or it shouldnt. battleforthenet is adovcating for keeping net neutrality. that is an opinion they are advocating for. they may have plenty of facts to back that opinion, but its still an opinion

im sure they do, but the facts aren't the point. there are two dominating opinions right now: net neutrality should be repealed, or it shouldnt. battleforthenet is adovcating for keeping net neutrality. that is an opinion they are advocating for. they may have plenty of facts to back that opinion, but its still an opinion
Please, read the whole thing for me. Let's have a friendly discussion. I said in my reply that they are not stating any opinion. That net neutrality should not be repealed without replacement is their goal and this is one of the few cases where that is an objective good, and my reply goes into detail on exactly why that is, why not showing common false counterarguments isn't disingenuous, and why their website design isn't scary.