Author Topic: [INT. NEWS] Alfie Evans dead  (Read 15966 times)

wheres your kids tho
The entire point of Red Spy's statement is that someone that doesn't have children can't fully comprehend the pain of losing a child.

I feel like you fundamentally don't understand what he was trying to say.

i think taking someone off life support and killing them are exactly the same with exactly the same results
then yeah killing patients happens every day. literally like every day a patient on life support is forcefully taken off because the surrogates cannot meet the bill required to keep them on it. this happens in every country. in UK it just happens that the medical bills are free so instead of the life support running out when the surrogates cannot pay, it runs out when the hospital decides that too many resources have been dedicated to it

it's not murder but yeah you could call it killing. you could also call a failed operation 'killing' as well, because its the same scenario: doctors keeping a patient alive to the best of their ability.

here's a good summary of what people are trying to say

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/jahi-mcmath-could-be-removed-from-life-support-despite-familys-wishes/2013/12/30/41f122f4-7191-11e3-8def-a33011492df2_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.84464184d917
Quote
Keeping a patient on life support in an intensive care unit bed costs, at a minimum, $2,000-$4,000 per day and can run much higher depending on the patient’s condition, into hundreds of thousands a year. Nurses and doctors must maintain care around the clock, warding off bed sores and other conditions that come from being confined to a hospital bed for days, months or even years.

It may seem cold to say it, but doing this for a patient who is legally dead takes up the time of medical professionals and sophisticated equipment that otherwise could be available to ICU patients who have real hope of recovering from devastating injuries or diseases.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2018, 03:58:35 PM by thegoodperry »

The problem you're missing is they're trying to find an alternative, aka Italy is willing to shoulder this problem and take it upon themselves, but Britain declines. The broken part is the continuum of care. It is common practice to comprehensively treat acute conditions and transfer patients through rehabilitation processes and the like so that additional acute hospital admissions do not happen. This ends up cutting costs long-term and doctors know this. Additionally, they took an oath, as is required for all doctors to take, to willingly do no harm. But where the ethical part plays, is that besides violating that oath, administration would have passed down the order to take the child off life support for doctors to pull the plug without consulting or getting the consent of the parents.
Britain declined transporting the braindead child themselves because of citizenship issues as well as resource issues. Since everything is paid for by the government, they have the final say in whether they choose to dedicate resources to granting the child full citizenship as well as airlifting them out.

The child's brain death isn't an acute condition, its a chronic and degenerative disease that is guaranteed to kill the child at a certain point in its life (probably within a few years). The hospital decided that they could no longer dedicate the resources to keep the child on life support. The parents are able to transfer the child to a different hospital if they want. There's nothing immoral about it, and it doesn't violate their oath. Keeping terminally ill patients on life support indefinitely costs much needed resources that could be use to treat patients with actual acute conditions.

Hospital care costs money, and that money has to come from somewhere. Life support is incredibly expensive, eventually there has to be a point when it can no longer be sustained, and a decision has to be made.

This is similar to another ongoing case of a clinically brain dead person still living off life support:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jahi_McMath_case
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/02/05/what-does-it-mean-to-die
The difference is that McMath has shown enough cognitive ability to prove she is not brain dead, but the coroner of their home state still won't rescind her death certificate.

I hope everything goes well for Alfie Evans. It's much harder to prove life in a comatose 2 year old than in a teenager. The definition of brain death varies between countries and states, so hopefully they can find somewhere that Alfie can be treated and studied without threat of termination.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2018, 08:47:34 PM by auzman466 »

Reminder: the state owns your children.

other reminder: you don't own your children

Third reminder: nobody should own anybody.

Fourth reminder: it's okay to own NOOBS XDXD

Fifth reminder: it's not ok to owe money

the dad is now giving mouth-to-mouth with alfie to help him breathe because he's still off life support

I'm not joking

I don't really think that's noble, the parents really need to let that kid pass in peace. At this stage it's almost selfish that they're keeping him alive.

thats.... kinda desperate and sad. seems more like these parents are in serious denial over their child’s medical state and chances of survival/recovery more than anything. sometimes you just gotta let things go - i dont think many of us would call repetitive defibrillating of a 90 year old man who just passed as the moral route to take.

that or they’re playing a publicity stunt. considering its happened before (9/11 liars, for example) it could be their way of getting attention/pushing their political views. but im more inclined towards denial than this

or they could let the child go to italy and get operated on

or they could let the child go to italy and get operated on
is a court order stopping them? what does the court order say?