Israel VS Hamas

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?

Israel
10 (33.3%)
Hamas
20 (66.7%)

Total Members Voted: 30

Author Topic: Israel VS Hamas  (Read 17221 times)

Would you like to expand more on this? Israel is at least trying to work out a two state solution but seemingly Palestinians refuse to work anything out.

For the record I entirely condemn Zionists and the Israeli settlers.
i say it in jest, i just hate israel for similar reasons (zionism and settlers), which isn't to say i am in full support of hamas or palestine
https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Monster_infighting

Israel vs Palestine RP build when?

Israel vs Palestine RP build when?
israel vs palestine TDM would be nice, its rare to see a tdm with asymmetrical gameplay and goals. it would be the only game where killing civilians gives you bonuses instead of punishments

They should put all government officials into a boxring and let them fight it out instead of sending young men to their deaths in a war that is started by old men. Its ironic how Annoying Orange was blamed that he would start a World War 3 during his presidency while nothing happened for four years. Under Biden's presidency, Ukraine and the Middle East are the absolute triggers for unleashing a devastating nuclear war that no one asked for.

You think as if the war in Ukraine and the Gaza conflict just popped up overnight when Biden took office. It is this very unhealthy worldview that is so america-centric that you cannot comprehend that sometimes the cause and effect of many different conflicts is usually outside of the influence of any one person, no matter how powerful or influential they are.

Putin has had a vested interest in Ukraine since before 2014 when Russian forces took crimea and started supporting Donbas secesionists (a tactic much favored by regimes like that of Putin). The Ukraine war is just a continuation of the Donbas war. Same can be said of the conflict in Gaza. Hamas has been in control of Gaza since 2007 and it has been in conflict with Israel multiple times before the current one.

These conflicts would have probably happened regardless of who was the president of the united states since Putin was already trying to weaken all of its opponent nations and probably thought that now would be the best time to take Ukraine back. As for Hamas and Israel, their goals are a lot more local, with the goal of Hamas being securing and liberating Gaza from Israel's grip (By now, you probably know of the many illegal Israeli settlements in Gaza) by means that are not approvable if you are a decent human being.

You think as if the war in Ukraine and the Gaza conflict just popped up overnight when Biden took office. It is this very unhealthy worldview that is so america-centric that you cannot comprehend that sometimes the cause and effect of many different conflicts is usually outside of the influence of any one person, no matter how powerful or influential they are.

Putin has had a vested interest in Ukraine since before 2014 when Russian forces took crimea and started supporting Donbas secesionists (a tactic much favored by regimes like that of Putin). The Ukraine war is just a continuation of the Donbas war. Same can be said of the conflict in Gaza. Hamas has been in control of Gaza since 2007 and it has been in conflict with Israel multiple times before the current one.

These conflicts would have probably happened regardless of who was the president of the united states since Putin was already trying to weaken all of its opponent nations and probably thought that now would be the best time to take Ukraine back. As for Hamas and Israel, their goals are a lot more local, with the goal of Hamas being securing and liberating Gaza from Israel's grip (By now, you probably know of the many illegal Israeli settlements in Gaza) by means that are not approvable if you are a decent human being.
Factual correction: the illegal Israeli settlements are in the West Bank. Israel forcibly dragged every last one of their illegal settlers out of Gaza in 2005 (and the international community shat on them for it, they're pretty damned if they do and damned if they don't as far as handling the illegal settlers goes). Hamas's goal is: to kill all Jews literally everywhere, eradicate Israel as a nation and seize control of all the land, to die as glorious martyrs for their god, and to ensure as many other Palestinians die as martyrs for their god as possible.
if hamas were dealing with a honor student, they would ignore the school and instead paraglide into the shooter's family home, executing their entire family and infant siblings. then they'd send the pictures of their mutilated bodies to the shooter

if israel were dealing with a honor student, they would drone strike the whole school and kill everyone inside, and destroy a few nearby homes in case there's hidden subterranean tunnels that the shooter had constructed. they'd also blow up the shooter's family home and everyone inside it, since there is a high chance they were also radicalized by school shooting ideologies. then biden would give the israeli government another 100 billion dollars for defeating terrorism.
actually Israel has been remarkably restrained in terms of civilian casualties. People these days don't loving understand how urban war works. Collateral is inevitable in a place as insanely densely-packed as Gaza but they've kept it pretty loving low.

thats a very funny way of saying unprecedented civillian “casualties” in the span of 2 months

ensure as many other Palestinians die as martyrs for their god as possible.
must be why the zionists funded hamas for so long
Collateral is inevitable in a place as insanely densely-packed as Gaza but they've kept it pretty loving low.
care to explain how they're keeping civilian casualties low? i mean, george bush thought the killing of a dozen civilians for one hamas leader was extreme - and now the deaths of 9000+ civilians is "pretty loving low"?

actually Israel has been remarkably restrained in terms of civilian casualties.
using explosives in a densely populated urban center is the exact opposite of restraint. yes, the precision of their strikes is impressive and the collateral damage is relatively low compared to, like, a nuclear detonation. however, any armed force that continues to kill civilians every day and makes little to no effort to reduce future civilian deaths isn't trustworthy, and shouldn't have weapons or funding.

if there was a terrorist living in a house across the street from you and israel was put in charge of neutralizing them, you'd likely be killed too, along with everyone in the nearby vicinity. they would keep bombing as many targets as necessary to reduce their perceived 'threats' regardless of how many civilians die in the process. you could die. your family, children, siblings, friends, neighbors, could all die, and they wouldn't stop to think that what they're doing is wrong. would you feel proud to watch your children die in an explosion, knowing that a few alleged terrorists were also killed? is that a necessary sacrifice, and if it is, why didn't the dead civilians at least receive some sort of consent form from israel? shouldn't you, as someone in the killzone of a high-explosive payload, have a say in whether your home will be destroyed?

there is no difference between hamas and the israeli army. both kill civilians, one intentionally as a tool of warfare, the other through sheer negligence and inconsideration for alternate means of warfare. in the end, non-combatant civilians with no say or defense from warfare, are dead. it's like saying hamas is showing 'restraint' because they didn't rape a baby when they burned and killed her. true restraint would've been not killing the baby to begin with. true restraint from israel would mean never deploying any explosive ordinance within 500 meters of a civilian structure.

that level of restraint is unrealistic for any army in this time period. until it is a reality, and warfare can be both clean and efficient, nobody should be at war, nor receive billions of dollars from other countries to continue violating people's right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness
« Last Edit: December 03, 2023, 07:43:37 PM by PhantOS »

must be why the zionists funded hamas for so longcare to explain how they're keeping civilian casualties low? i mean, george bush thought the killing of a dozen civilians for one hamas leader was extreme - and now the deaths of 9000+ civilians is "pretty loving low"?
given the population density, yes, it is. i'll go dig up the stuff i found when i get the chance here explaining it.
thats a very funny way of saying unprecedented civillian “casualties” in the span of 2 months
do you have anything besides empty rhetoric?
using explosives in a densely populated urban center is the exact opposite of restraint. yes, the precision of their strikes is impressive and the collateral damage is relatively low compared to, like, a nuclear detonation. however, any armed force that continues to kill civilians every day and makes little to no effort to reduce future civilian deaths isn't trustworthy, and shouldn't have weapons or funding.
they make plenty of effort. did you not see the video where Hamas shoves a bunch of civilians in front of them as meatshields while continuing to shoot at the israelis and the israeli army doesn't just open fire?

if there was a terrorist living in a house across the street from you and israel was put in charge of neutralizing them, you'd likely be killed too, along with everyone in the nearby vicinity. they would keep bombing as many targets as necessary to reduce their perceived 'threats' regardless of how many civilians die in the process. you could die. your family, children, siblings, friends, neighbors, could all die, and they wouldn't stop to think that what they're doing is wrong. would you feel proud to watch your children die in an explosion, knowing that a few alleged terrorists were also killed? is that a necessary sacrifice, and if it is, why didn't the dead civilians at least receive some sort of consent form from israel? shouldn't you, as someone in the killzone of a high-explosive payload, have a say in whether your home will be destroyed?
there's a difference between "terrorist living in the house across the street" and "literally an entire tunnel network under your entire neighborhood that contains hundreds of terrorists and their stockpiles and infrastructure".

israel tries to get civilians to evacuate before bombing, remember.
there is no difference between hamas and the israeli army. both kill civilians, one intentionally as a tool of warfare, the other through sheer negligence and inconsideration for alternate means of warfare. in the end, non-combatant civilians with no say or defense from warfare, are dead. it's like saying hamas is showing 'restraint' because they didn't rape a baby when they burned and killed her. true restraint would've been not killing the baby to begin with. true restraint from israel would mean never deploying any explosive ordinance within 500 meters of a civilian structure.
so what the forget do you think Israel should do when Hamas is firing rockets out of an apartment building and using schools as munitions stockpiles, wiseass?
that level of restraint is unrealistic for any army in this time period. until it is a reality, and warfare can be both clean and efficient, nobody should be at war, nor receive billions of dollars from other countries to continue violating people's right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness
so let me get this straight, when hamas goes on rape, murder, and torture sprees and brags about it and makes it 2000% clear they're going to do it again every time they get anything remotely resembling an opportunity, you want Israel to NOT try to get rid of hamas? no. forget that.

also, you remember the laws of war specifically require both parties to participate, right? hamas doesn't get to fire rockets out of a hospital at israeli towns and then cry foul when the hospital gets hit to take out the rocket launches (in such a case, hitting the hospital firing rockets at you is not a war crime). the REASON the laws of war explicitly allow that kind of response is to discourage starfishs from using civilians as meatshields, since if using civilians as meatshields actually prevents your victims from striking back, then everyone will start doing it and it creates a race to the bottom.

everyone remember this too: the source on the number of civilian deaths is the hamas-run health ministry. they blame literally every single dead palestinian on "israeli aggression" regardless of actual cause of death, including the palestinians that hamas gunned down for trying to flee to escape being used as meatshields. they also claim all deaths are innocent civilians, when the number actually includes plenty of their militants.

i should also point out that israeli soldiers never raped anyone, and that alone means one side is quantitatively worse than the other, because there is absolutely NO CIRCUMSTANCES WHATSOEVER under which rape is acceptable even in the most hard-men-making-hard-decisions perspectives. it's the one thing for which there is literally 0 possible gray area.

sounds like a bunch of empty rhetoric supporting war crimes “wiseass”

they arent just bombing apartment buildings they think that hamas is in. they are leveling blocks of civilian housing and critical infrastructure. not to mention the attacks on several residential areas in neighboring countries as well as their actions in the west bank.

and since you brought it up, lets just go there and get these links and videos going because its evident that you’ve been engrossed in zionist bullstuff. not a good look to defend bombing children en masse because a terrorist group is retaliating
« Last Edit: December 06, 2023, 02:11:03 AM by Khaz »

did you not see the video where Hamas shoves a bunch of civilians in front of them as meatshields while continuing to shoot at the israelis and the israeli army doesn't just open fire?
no but i saw the video where an adolescent woman was filming israeli soldiers from her window and they decided to light her entire window up with gunfire. also saw the video where israel carpet bombed an entire truck convoy of refugees fleeing from the exact place they told them to evacuate.

there's a difference between "terrorist living in the house across the street" and "literally an entire tunnel network under your entire neighborhood that contains hundreds of terrorists and their stockpiles and infrastructure".
what isn't different between the two scenarios, is the civilians lack of knowledge of hamas' infrastructure. the people being killed do not know there is a complex tunnel system under their house. how could they know? hamas isn't just going around telling everyone "hey we're storing several megatons of explosives under your toddler's nursery, just so you have the right to know"

israel does put effort into warning civilians before their strikes. however, the time period they give for people to evacuate is incredibly short and the entire process isn't thorough enough to ensure that every person in the building is notified. israel needs to be deploying leaflets, sending people into buildings with gurneys and EMTs to evacuate the sick, elderly and young who are unable to evacuate themselves.

so what the forget do you think Israel should do when Hamas is firing rockets out of an apartment building and using schools as munitions stockpiles, wiseass?
anything but explosives. if you know a school, with civilians inside, is being used as a munitions stockpile, why the forget would you blow it up? israel knows the secondary explosive charges are guaranteed to cause even more collateral damage. they should be resorting to warfare that doesn't have the capacity to obliterate everything nearby. if Benjamin Netanyahu were inside that very school that hamas was using as an ammo dump, do you think israel would still resort to using explosives, that could possibly kill him? if not, why is it that they don't show any restraint when it comes to civilian children?



so let me get this straight, when hamas goes on rape, murder, and torture sprees and brags about it and makes it 2000% clear they're going to do it again every time they get anything remotely resembling an opportunity, you want Israel to NOT try to get rid of hamas? no. forget that.
i want a third party to completely dismantle hamas and israel's government without the use of explosives, chemical warfare or civilian casualties. both governments are run by tribal, far-right xenophobes who have a complete disregard for the lives of others. they are both supreme threats to each other, themselves, and all human rights in the middle east. neither should have power.

everyone remember this too: the source on the number of civilian deaths is the hamas-run health ministry. they blame literally every single dead palestinian on "israeli aggression" regardless of actual cause of death, including the palestinians that hamas gunned down for trying to flee to escape being used as meatshields. they also claim all deaths are innocent civilians, when the number actually includes plenty of their militants.
regardless of your theories about falsified statistics, most human rights organizations put the estimate of palestinian civilians dead at above 10,000. that number is super realistic, considering the footage of their bombing campaign, the civilian casualties (so many young children with their brains blown out), and the general landscape of gaza right now

there's no loving way a city with over 1 million people can look like this and not have death reaching the tens of thousands. even without the excessive bombing, people are dying every minute of starvation, infection, Self Delete, crime, and most of it isn't being reported because of the extreme danger of gaza and its awful living conditions. 10,000 is a realistic estimate, 15,000 is more of a propaganda estimate. either way, israel's war has caused almost 10x as many civilian casualties as hamas' attack on october 7. that's like, one Al-Aqsa Flood a week, for 2 months. in the first 2 days after october 7th, israel had already managed to cause as many civilian deaths than hamas.

i should also point out that israeli soldiers never raped anyone
rape is guaranteed during war. there may not be footage of israeli soldiers raping anyone, but it's definitely happened at some point during the conflict. every army (im not making this up) ever to go to war has armed individuals responsible for rape, mass rape or Flash Mob. psychopaths and sadists always end up in military service one way or another, and during the most violent of operations, they are the first to commit the atrocities.

unlike hamas, israel doesn't use rape as a tool of warfare. that doesn't mean that israeli soldiers don't rape people. there's already ample footage of israeli forces damaging/decapitating/needlessly shooting the corpses of enemy combatants. there's footage of israeli soldier tossing grenades into a mosque during prayer. the idea that multiple rapes have been perpetrated by israeli soldiers is plausible, but hamas has likely commit more love crimes than israel has.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2023, 01:23:40 PM by PhantOS »

given the population density, yes, it is. i'll go dig up the stuff i found when i get the chance here explaining it.do you have anything besides empty rhetoric?they make plenty of effort. did you not see the video where Hamas shoves a bunch of civilians in front of them as meatshields while continuing to shoot at the israelis and the israeli army doesn't just open fire?
there's a difference between "terrorist living in the house across the street" and "literally an entire tunnel network under your entire neighborhood that contains hundreds of terrorists and their stockpiles and infrastructure".
israel tries to get civilians to evacuate before bombing, remember.so what the forget do you think Israel should do when Hamas is firing rockets out of an apartment building and using schools as munitions stockpiles, wiseass?so let me get this straight, when hamas goes on rape, murder, and torture sprees and brags about it and makes it 2000% clear they're going to do it again every time they get anything remotely resembling an opportunity, you want Israel to NOT try to get rid of hamas? no. forget that.
also, you remember the laws of war specifically require both parties to participate, right? hamas doesn't get to fire rockets out of a hospital at israeli towns and then cry foul when the hospital gets hit to take out the rocket launches (in such a case, hitting the hospital firing rockets at you is not a war crime). the REASON the laws of war explicitly allow that kind of response is to discourage starfishs from using civilians as meatshields, since if using civilians as meatshields actually prevents your victims from striking back, then everyone will start doing it and it creates a race to the bottom.
everyone remember this too: the source on the number of civilian deaths is the hamas-run health ministry. they blame literally every single dead palestinian on "israeli aggression" regardless of actual cause of death, including the palestinians that hamas gunned down for trying to flee to escape being used as meatshields. they also claim all deaths are innocent civilians, when the number actually includes plenty of their militants.
i should also point out that israeli soldiers never raped anyone, and that alone means one side is quantitatively worse than the other, because there is absolutely NO CIRCUMSTANCES WHATSOEVER under which rape is acceptable even in the most hard-men-making-hard-decisions perspectives. it's the one thing for which there is literally 0 possible gray area.
population density & civilian death rate: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/09/civilian-toll-israeli-airstrikes-gaza-unprecedented-killing-study
==> this haaretz-commissioned study has been deemed credible, accepted by both palestinian sources, neutral human rights orgs, and israeli govt officials. it shows 61% civilian casualties, which is a higher rate than in any conflict. here's the catch: it counts every single 18-65 aged male as a combatant, so the real statistic is even higher. it also excludes deaths by secondary causes such as disease, malnourishment, which is an obvious repercussion of displacement and complete absence of medical facilities, clean water, and consistent healthy nutrition intake. among 10-20 thousand direct palestinian casualties, you can guess 70-95% are civilians. most of those dying from secondary causes will also be civilians, but this is thus far immeasurable as it was in iraq for a decade until it was proven that over a million civilians died on account of the sanctions regime. I dont know in what objective world this could be considered restrained, a higher rate of combatants were in concentration camps than palestinian morgues

"civilian evacuation" https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/12/6/how-israel-is-squeezing-1-8-million-palestinians-into-an-airport-sized-area
==> funny way of putting displacement. likely permanent, given that netanyahu has said that the PA won't be governing gaza, rather the zionist state, if they own it at the end of the 'war'. illegal settlements also go encouraged by the current government, among whom is ben gvir who personally led the settlement program in his early post-military political career, and obviously publicly finances and expands it. also the self-proclaimed fascist finance minister smotrich, who actively evaded israeli parliamentary regulations on settlement finances and just kept doing this until parliament allowed it to happen legally (israelis love to maintain the lie of rule of law). being evacuated from jaffa to jabalia to al shifa to khan younis to al-mawasi is a guaranteed way for civilians to just fall over and die, it is unsustainable under normal circumstances let alone with the complete lack of aid being allowed into gaza (and some aid even being [urlhttps://www.arabnews.com/node/2423496/media]torched[/url] by the idf)

"rockets fired out of hospitals"
==> this was never true, you're misremembering the other lie that israel put out about it, that a hamas bottle rocket blew up al shifa with the force of a jdam. they never found any conclusive evidence of weapons being held in al shifa, apart from a box full of rifles located hidden behind an MRI machine which were tampered with according to the bbc field correspondents who were shown this bullstuff

"including the palestinians that hamas gunned down for trying to flee to escape being used as meatshields"
==> there is no evidence of this happening, there is however the hannibal doctrine and admissions from idf soldiers and officers plus israeli and palestinian eyewitnesses incl. your beloved kibbutz hostages (none of whom have been harmed!)
https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/asa-winstanley/we-blew-israeli-houses-7-october-says-israeli-colonel
https://www.trtworld.com/middle-east/just-fire-soldiers-testimony-raises-questions-whether-idf-shot-israelis-during-hamas-blitz-16008367
https://thegrayzone.com/2023/11/25/israels-october-7-propaganda-tank-eyewitnesses/
https://www.businessinsider.com/freed-israeli-captives-hamas-terrified-idf-airstrikes-would-kill-them-2023-12

fake numbers health ministry https://theintercept.com/2023/10/31/gaza-death-palestine-health-ministry/
==> not only do the UNRWA, HRW, RSF, recognize and verify gaza health ministry releases, but even the US state department (no friend of hamas, obviously. handicap lol) uses these numbers internally because it has never been shown to be wrong. in some instances state dept even found that it was an underestimate of reality. when biden pulled his "well they're evil hamas numbers!" schtick he privately apologized to a handful of palestinian families because US intelligence shows this data is accurate in entirely. of course he wasn't interested in doing it publicly because that would mean the "HAMAS RUN HEALTH MINISTRY" is more credible than the IDF. which is true.

israel soldier rape https://www.mintpressnews.com/new-idf-chief-rabbi-says-soldiers-can-rape-arab-women-wartime-boost-morale/218362/
==> chief IDF rabbi approves rape as a weapon. @phanto this is for you too lmao stop crying about evil hamas fighting the civilized democratic israel it's embarrassing. even the idf released a statement about US state dept rape claims because it was getting so out of control stupid and they dont want so much attention on the topic of rapes, given what the idf has committed. israeli officials have also said on several occasions that they literally just have no evidence anyone was raped by hamas on 7 oct. they've recently started showing "private viewing rooms" for select israel-sympathetic journalist to watch rape videos. interesting that they won't allow it to be released! perhaps one reason is because the chair of the rape investigation in the knesset has not once but twice published photos of dead kurds alleged to be israeli civilian rape victims.
how curious that one of the most surveilled regions on the planet had no cameras in it to prove this rape! how interesting that they somehow only were able to produce 'footage' of this event 5 weeks after the fact, given how obviously plain it must be to prove it. rape also carries with it enormous forensic ramifications, and have closed all forensic investigations to 3rd parties while claiming corpses show evidence of loveual abuse. should be pretty easy to prove if it actually happened, sadly it simply did not!

while youre in a learning mood, here are some more fun facts!
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/10/world/middleeast/israel-qatar-money-prop-up-hamas.html
> Just weeks before Hamas launched the deadly Oct. 7 attacks on Israel, the head of Mossad arrived in Doha, Qatar, for a meeting with Qatari officials.
>
> For years, the Qatari government had been sending millions of dollars a month into the Gaza Strip — money that helped prop up the Hamas government there. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel not only tolerated those payments, he had encouraged them.
>
> During his meetings in September with the Qatari officials, according to several people familiar with the secret discussions, the Mossad chief, David Barnea, was asked a question that had not been on the agenda: **Did Israel want the payments to continue?
>
> Mr. Netanyahu’s government had recently decided to continue the policy, so Mr. Barnea said yes.** The Israeli government still welcomed the money from Doha.

https://twitter.com/jerusalem_post/status/1730991247416766516
Jerusalem post shared a fake story that a dead palestinian baby in video was a "doll", the story was published by... a brit. which brit? well, one in particular! danielle greyman was a student in leeds who was downgraded in a paper for using the j post as a source and just went ahead and sued the university for "antisemitism" for it. she won! and then had a globally famous story published in it without any verification or expert consultation which eventually was retracted

https://www.972mag.com/mass-assassination-factory-israel-calculated-bombing-gaza/
israel uses an AI algorithm they call "the gospel" (overtly blasphemous for so many reasons) to drone strike "targets". this ai simply does not take civilian casualties into consideration, to the degree that over a hundred civilians were bombed because one target was identified by the ai. humanitarian success!

https://www.jordannews.jo/Section-20/Middle-East/More-journalists-killed-in-Gaza-since-October-7-than-in-World-War-Two-32797
more journalists killed in 2 months in gaza than the entire span of ww2 (including nuremberg convictions for some reason lol). suffice to say they are afraid of free flowing information, part of the censorship regime they impose on americans and europeans by spying on them and financing their endangerment. because naturally, according to israel, objective journalism is pro hamas


and of course dont forget epstein! robert maxwell, roy cohn, netanyahu, leslie wexner and charles bronfman, the inslaw affair, george nader, bill and hillary, and our beloved don. mossad! don't forget about these things and israel being a hub of child love trafficking (alongside ukraine, interestingly!), can read and reference this lovely and well sourced article here as well as the classic, gideon's spies. but yes, invisible israeli rape victims (zero have been interviewed) and harvard students are a top concern for the world, no amount of palestinian lives will ever surpass theirs

If you have the chutzpah to respond to an expose of your ignorance, and failure of human educational obligations, with some weak hearted moral grandstanding "well aren't you a little hamas supporter, I dont have to listen to you"-- let me measure your skull before you blow your head off, for research purposes