The Ultimate Blockland RP - A Theoretical Discussion

[M]

I think that disabling the message that says when people die is essential. It is really annoying, when you kill someone, and instantly everyone knows who did it.

Also, I think a backpack/inventory system using a GUI would be cool. Maybe even trading, banking, and shopping could use similar features. I like the idea of having more than 5 items. If there was an inventory, there should be a weight limit rather than an item limit. There should also be certain penalties for having weight. It would also be good if you could have bricks/props/vehicles store items. So if I had a covered wagon, I could use it to transport more goods.

If you see someone die:
  If you had LOS to the killer as well:
    You get a regular death message
  Or you get a Self Delete message
Or you get nothing

As to the backpack idea, I always thought that limiting the player to 6 items or so with a total weight of no more than say 20kgs, plus the ability to carry containers would work well. The container would have anywhere up to a whopping 32 item slots, plus its own max weight limit and a multiplier; the container's weight is equal to its own weight plus the weight of everything in it multiplied by its weight multiplier.

So you're carrying a gun which weighs something like 1.1kg, three clips at 0.3kg each and a backpack (0.4kg/8 slots/0.6x) with ten more clips, some trail rations (totalling 8 units at 0.5kg each, or 4kg) and a full 2L bottle of water (2kg).

So your total weight is:
1.1 + (0.3 * 3) + 0.4 + ((0.3 * 10) + (0.5 * 8) + 2) * 0.6 = 6.6kg of your 20kg limit, and three slots of your 6.

You also can't carry another backpack, but you could have a belt pouch (0.1kg/3 slots/0.8x) and a duffle bag (1.1kg/12 slots/0.6x) since the belt pouch is on your belt and the duffle bag is slung at your side over one shoulder (with the strap assumedly under the backpack). You can stow empty containers in other containers, and you cannot access containers in containers. It takes a second to open a container and it takes 0.2 of a second to remove one item from it (0.2s per item in the stack) so you can't just macro-swap items from containers, you need to manage your inventory.

Also admins playing as admins have a hammerspace container which has 256 slots, no weight limit and doesn't weigh anything.

[Ad Bot]

[Space Guy]

Building - (Bricklaying perhaps?): The less skilled you are the more penalties you get.

Fighting: ... Gaining skill would be based on the number of kills, the number of shots and the time you spent with that weapon. Just because you are lucky killing a few people with a few drawn shots that does not mean that you are instantly good at using the weapon.

It really depends what kind of outcome you want from the RPG. If you're trying to encourage good building then punishing people for starting to build at all unless you lay hours into it seems bad. Rise of Blockland did get those who started early to make good-looking places, and in other ways just kill one's ability to get started if you chose the wrong market upon finding that everyone but you has high-class decorations, a hundred foot sign and can afford to sell at the lowest possible price while you spent everything on putting down a baseplate and the required 'click to buy' 'storage' 'production' bricks.

When weapons get skills, it depends on how much 'levelling up' increases them by. If going from skill 5 to skill 6 gives you 34 instead of 33 damage, that puts you at a 3-hit kill instead of four, so a clear advantage. The first person to go on a killing spree of AFKs, focused builders or people trying to do other tasks if there's an economy (CityRP meant people trying to buy food were prime targets) gains levels fastest, and others may be powerless to stop them if getting a gun is too difficult. (Again, CityRP. Saved enough to buy one, sure, but you might need 5 or 6 if you keep dying while they murder you... plus ammo) On the other hand if it's too easy that'll be what many focus on with it being a deathmatch between the best criminals with civilians as free money/ammo stores to steal.

[Niliscro]

If you see someone die:
  If you had LOS to the killer as well:
    You get a regular death message
  Or you get a Self Delete message
Or you get nothing

As to the backpack idea, I always thought that limiting the player to 6 items or so with a total weight of no more than say 20kgs, plus the ability to carry containers would work well. The container would have anywhere up to a whopping 32 item slots, plus its own max weight limit and a multiplier; the container's weight is equal to its own weight plus the weight of everything in it multiplied by its weight multiplier.

So you're carrying a gun which weighs something like 1.1kg, three clips at 0.3kg each and a backpack (0.4kg/8 slots/0.6x) with ten more clips, some trail rations (totalling 8 units at 0.5kg each, or 4kg) and a full 2L bottle of water (2kg).

So your total weight is:
1.1 + (0.3 * 3) + 0.4 + ((0.3 * 10) + (0.5 * 8) + 2) * 0.6 = 6.6kg of your 20kg limit, and three slots of your 6.

You also can't carry another backpack, but you could have a belt pouch (0.1kg/3 slots/0.8x) and a duffle bag (1.1kg/12 slots/0.6x) since the belt pouch is on your belt and the duffle bag is slung at your side over one shoulder (with the strap assumedly under the backpack). You can stow empty containers in other containers, and you cannot access containers in containers. It takes a second to open a container and it takes 0.2 of a second to remove one item from it (0.2s per item in the stack) so you can't just macro-swap items from containers, you need to manage your inventory.

Also admins playing as admins have a hammerspace container which has 256 slots, no weight limit and doesn't weigh anything.

So you're suggesting an encumbrance system?  I like that idea, to say the least, but should encumbrance be maxed out according to a player's level or according to the type of pack they're using?  I prefer the latter idea so players can upgrade how much they can hold by buying new packs, etc.

Or even a combination of the two, where a player can hold more weight as they level up and can also buy packs that can hold more weight.  So if a player's max encumbrance is 20kg and their pack can only hold 10kg, they need to buy a new pack to take full advantage of how much they can hold.



Also, I think we should go through some of this thread and pick out the ideas we like, so there's some type of coherent plan for anyone who wants to use these ideas for their mod.

[Tom]

What I've realized is that crime is probably the only fun part of cityRP. So why not make some kind of "ghetto RP" where everything is based around crime.

[Thorax]

Dang it Doomonkey and Clockturn! I was about to suggest a backpack idea yesterday, but I got busy and didn't get a chance.


Inventory systems should be changed up to make everything a bit more realistic.

Instead of the 5 slots players have now, it should be downsized to 3. For the rest of the post, I'll explain in pictures.



This is our basic player with the new standard inventory. He decided that he wants to cut down some logs.



After cutting down a tree, a log is added to his inventory.



He decides he is going to chop down another tree.




After cutting it down, another log is added. Now his inventory is full and he can't get anything else.


Let's retry at situation now with a backpack item.



The player would like to cut down a tree.



After cutting it down, the log is then added as a variable to his backpack.


Backpacks are used to hold items for a player when they normally wouldn't have room. They are controlled by slash-commands (Which could easily be turned into a GUI).

/openpack lists the contents of the backpack (This could be a keybind to open the GUI)
/putaway itemname moves an item from the inventory to backpack (GUI interface to do all this)
/takeout itemname moves an item from the backpack to the inventory
/remove itemname drops an item from your backpack (Inventory dropping would still work with ctrl+w)
/switch itemname1 itemname2 switches an item in your inventory (1) with an item in your backpack (2)
/setinvdefault makes it so that items that are picked up go into the inventory first if there is room
/setbpdefault makes it so that items that are picked up go into the backpack first if there is room

There can be different sizes of backpacks that the player can buy that would allow them to carry more stuff, but would also make the player move slower.

Also, the reason I chose 3 slots instead of 6 because of this system. 2 weapons or tools will be easily accessible by the player for quick usage. Any other tools or weapons the player might need could be kept in the inventory.

[Space Guy]

A system like that will become really boring for getting started with repetitive clicking/running around at trees, then running across town for the millers, then to the bank to put your money in, then back to the forest...

Don't add hundreds of RPG-like or "realism" restrictions just because you can, the main priority should be having it fun to play.

Mr Wallet's 'Socialist Democracy' server mod, while not really an RPG in a full sense was fun and interesting because players got to communicate, try different things, share an experience when the city gained lots/lost money, etc.

[rkynick]

Ideas that are built upon by the players. Let the players determine the aspects of the world and the mod simply writes the laws of the universe.

Bad:
-Player needs to build a house with a bed brick and a fireplace brick.

Good:
-Player has motivations to build a house, such as HP recovery or item storage. The items are flexible enough that they are only tools in your wardrobe rather than the object of the game.

[Anti-Block]

In addition to Thoraxes idea, instead of clumsy chat commands, just use it like:
-scroll to the Backpack
-click to open up the Backpack, or keybind it to something.
-GUI opens up which displays items
-select item you want, and is then equipped in a sub-space in your inventory which is not taking up the third space, but rather being in it's own new fourth space
-for weapons, maybe a secondary weapons slot?

[heedicalking]

The RP should be able to work in numerous ares of choice. For example, if you wanted to do a city RP with it, you should be able to, as well as it working with a medieval style. The RP should be able to flex, as in having a GUI to pick which items are allowed and which are not, as well as setting the default price for them. Adding features that allow the host to customize how he or she wants it run would make each RP server different.

Some may allow you to carry tons of logs in your inventory while others will try to be "realistic survival" and allow you to carry only a few.

Some may require you to pay for building while others just require you to have enough resources.

An RP(G) that allows multiple choices that shape how it is played will be better off in general, that way the host can mold these prefs to fit exactly what they were looking for instead of having "DONT SPAWN THIS OR PERMA BAN" or "NO BUILDING UNLESS I SAY" written in the welcome message.

[Thorax]

A system like that will become really boring for getting started with repetitive clicking/running around at trees, then running across town for the millers, then to the bank to put your money in, then back to the forest...

Don't add hundreds of RPG-like or "realism" restrictions just because you can, the main priority should be having it fun to play.

Mr Wallet's 'Socialist Democracy' server mod, while not really an RPG in a full sense was fun and interesting because players got to communicate, try different things, share an experience when the city gained lots/lost money, etc.

You're missing the point. The tree cutting was simply an example to show you how'd the inventory system would work. I could have made it so that he was killing bots and looting their bodies, the same inventory system would be in place. (Oh, and I never mentioned what he had to do to cut down the tree, I only said that he wanted it down, so he cut it. Maybe the tree teleported him to a room with a jump challenge or something that determined if he cut it down?)

As for bots and enemies. When you, as the player, kill something in the RP, items should be dropped. This is how the drop order would work.

-Player kills a bot.
-Depending on the "class" of bot, the server determines what items it could have (A goblin shoemaker wouldn't have a masterly crafted sword, etc for other types of RPs)
-It then spawns 2 or 3 items with more valuable items being rarer to find in drops.

-Player kills enemy player.
-Server determines the value of each object they're caring.
-Enemy player is able to keep 3 or 4 random items they're caring (More valuable items will have more "weight" to them, so they will be more likely to be chosen).
-Then it will spawn 2-3 random items for the player to get (More valuable items will have less "weight" to them, so they will be more rare).
-Any extra items will be destroyed.

[rkynick]

I think we're going down the wrong path here with using overly general concepts.

We need big, over-arcing ideas and not a poor construct of sillier, less organized rpg aspects.
The worry should definitely not be in making it so flexible. We need a solid idea first, before we make it flexible.

[Thorax]

I think we're going down the wrong path here with using overly general concepts.

We need big, over-arcing ideas and not a poor construct of sillier, less organized rpg aspects.
The worry should definitely not be in making it so flexible. We need a solid idea first, before we make it flexible.

If that's the case, then we defiantly need to discuss what MUST be in an RP, and what is optional. Everything that is an absolute must will be in the core pack.

[Space Guy]

I think we're going down the wrong path here with using overly general concepts.

We need big, over-arcing ideas and not a poor construct of sillier, less organized rpg aspects.
The worry should definitely not be in making it so flexible. We need a solid idea first, before we make it flexible.

That's what I meant with the "don't add RPG elements just for realism, add them for actual fun".

[Barnabas]

A good RP system should encourage player interaction and actual role-playing, instead of turning everything into grindfest.

Perhaps it would help if we recalled rp-s we played and what we enjoyed about them and what we felt that could have changed. This way we could see what makes them fun and what makes them a drag.

[Niliscro]

A good RP system should encourage player interaction and actual role-playing, instead of turning everything into grindfest.

Perhaps it would help if we recalled rp-s we played and what we enjoyed about them and what we felt that could have changed. This way we could see what makes them fun and what makes them a drag.

A good idea.


First:
Every RP I've played seems to be based around quests.  This gives you something to do, but as far as Blockland goes the quests always suck and revolve around grinding the resource system.  Something that asks a player to save someone's daughter or retrieve a missing chalice would be better, albeit cliche.  In short, quests need to be fun, and not entirely based off of farming x resources or forging some weapon.

Second:
Combat is a major system in most non-city RPs, and sometimes unintentionally in city RPs.  Besides the combat system being relatively unexciting and easy, most RPs don't put any work into the PvP aspect.  Opponents should be challenging, not killed with four swipes of your sword.  As far as PvP, I was working on an RP a while back (evented) where the wilderness areas between towns were PvP zones besides combat areas.  This can make it unfair to new players who are being freekilled by experienced players with great weapons, so a system would have to be figured out.

In addition to this, combat shouldn't be entirely necessary.  If you're just a trader or a traveler, you probably won't be carrying around a broadsword and a bow and 6 different other weapons while equipped with a shield, unless you intend to sell them.  Someone who might want to travel from one town to another for whatever reason would probably only carry a dagger or shortsword.  In essence, not everyone should be forced to fight as a means of traveling.  At best, players might make a fighters guild to protect players who wish to travel during dangerous times but haven't taken the time to increase the fighting skills because they were busy trading or building.

Third:
Most RPs are based around getting resources to get a better item/weapon or to sell or to complete a task.  There is a minimal or nonexistent trading system, and once you've acquired the best weapons there really isn't much else to do because the quests are boring and combat is unexciting.  Basically, RPs need a good replay value, where there's always something else to do besides fight/harvest/quest.  Strong player interaction to the point of player-made guilds, trading, and other creative roleplaying aspects are a must.  All in all, RPs need more RPing, and some way to assist players who wish to.