Author Topic: 2012/02/05 - Shadows and Shaders vs. Interiors and Terrain [Fan Art Too]  (Read 430092 times)

Question: Will slate-edits with water (Slate Ocean etc.) still work, or will they be removed?

Opinion: Honestly; who has used Slopes for the last few months? Personally, I lost interest in it after it turned pink/red. Slopes is also ridiculously hard to build proper (large) builds on. The only thing Slopes was used for was base-tdm's and random skiiing.

Honestly, If you're taking such extreme measures to changing the rendering engine, you might as well just stop being cheap and upgrade the entire engine itself so then we can have the best of both worlds, if a newer version of the Torque engine would be too expensive to upgrade, a lot of people would chip in to help.
I have seen valid points from both sides and I have to say that I support both sides equally. I'm sad to see the terrain and interiors go but the new features that we will see in the future are amazing. I also agree with you. The Torque engine we are using is very outdated. What exactly is the real problem behind not recreating Blockland on a newer engine? Apart from, you know, having to code everything again. If it's money I have a feeling if the developers would keep releasing videos, news and screenshots of their progress on a weekly basis it would keep up people's appetites and they would be a quite interested in this new-old game. I bet a lot of people would be willing to buy the game again for full price. There are also professional game engines released for free.

Quote
To the haters:

Every time there is an update there's always a few laggards who think the old way was better.  They blindly argue against change.  Well guess what friends: the reason we don't live in loving caves today is because people like you lost that argument every generation over and over for the last 400,000 years.  You would stymie all of civilization for your own pathetic power trip.  You are nothing but a human speed bump.

Months and months of work are being dissed because you won't be able to build on the slopes.

Half of you people don't even know what you're talking about. None of you have experienced these changes in game. Your only argument is you don't want to have to build any sort of environment, despite multiple scripters promising to work on a terrain gen already.

I suppose any real dislike I have of this upcoming update boil down to three main complaints:

1. I don't like the idea of leaving the Bedroom forever without the ability to play in it again. I know the build we have is pretty similar, and anything could be recreated in it, but it just won't feel the same... Practically, this isn't an issue, but sentimentally, the Bedroom is probably my favorite map, we've had it since v0002. This is why I keep suggesting you acquire and include a full scale accurate build of it - in a practical sense, it would be a total upgrade, and at the same time, it would feel like the original one.

This one is probably the least important, now that I think about it.

2. I've never been impressed by a terrain made out of bricks. This partially goes back to a problem I have with landscapes in Minecraft - You can't walk over them smoothly; you have to keep jumping your way up them and falling down them. I hope a set of large ramp bricks changes my mind about this, but smooth rolling landscapes as far as the eye can see was nice to just move around in, let alone actually build and play in.

3. The maps inspired builds. I'm sure many of the designs built on terrain and interior maps have been inspired by the maps themselves. Take the boss battles server for instance - the arena is for the most part, just the bedroom. The bridge structure around the bed, the pool behind it, the use of the shelf and dresser as spawn points, were all designed to augment the bedroom to improve gameplay, and the layout was both inspired by and constrained by the bedroom itself. I remember Badspot once said it's the constraints in the game that separate it from a modeling program. The terrain and interiors were one of those constraints that encouraged creativity.

I suppose if there's a question to ask in all this, it's this: Do you believe these things will be compensated for in the future by either the community or the Developers? And if so, how?

I'd say that this is a dream come true for people who love detailed builds!
I don't think I'm going to feel a big blow from this update and I don't think I'll mind losing the "classic" maps in trade for better graphics. This could open doors to building that never existed before!

I don't care if terrain is removed. I care if there's no-good replacement

There will be a wide variety of bricks. -- kompressor
« Last Edit: February 06, 2012, 12:00:07 PM by kompressor »

A few questions I've compiled. Some were asked by other people and not answered:
Will there be a way to make bricks that don't cast shadows (preferably by an option like rendering/raycasting/collision)? Could be useful since I'd imagine that the shadow system wouldn't work exactly how people wanted it all the time.

How, if in any way, do player/brick lights interact with dynamic shadows currently/in the foreseeable future?

Can you get lights to only shine in one direction? (I presume the answer to this question is "no" but it's worth asking)

Will the Glow paint effect interact with dynamic shadows?

Can we have some elaboration on the way that shaders can currently be customized? Will there be options in the GUI for regular users to customize the way the shaders work other than "on/off"? Will user-created shader changes be modular, like out current add-on system, or will they be lines of script you have to copy and paste into the source? Will there, in the foreseeable future, be default shader options for users to switch between? Will you be able to switch (user created/default (if this ever happens)) shaders midgame or will this require a restart?

Will there be a way to mass-convert bricks into trustless, indestructible terrain without saving it and reloading it as a map? Presumably this would work in a way similar to the Duplicator.

3. The maps inspired builds. I'm sure many of the designs built on terrain and interior maps have been inspired by the maps themselves. Take the boss battles server for instance - the arena is for the most part, just the bedroom. The bridge structure around the bed, the pool behind it, the use of the shelf and dresser as spawn points, were all designed to augment the bedroom to improve gameplay, and the layout was both inspired by and constrained by the bedroom itself. I remember Badspot once said it's the constraints in the game that separate it from a modeling program. The terrain and interiors were one of those constraints that encouraged creativity.

This is a valid point. Will there be a way to load a build effectively as a map, and will there be some of these buildmaps in the game by default?

Will there be any improvements to the way blockheads navigate terrain to compensate for losing smooth maps?

Also, "how about terrain maps arent removed, but will be unavailable in the map selection if shaders are on

that way blockland won't die for the veteran players"

Please don't claim to speak for veteran players.


Also, let  me add on a personal note that I appreciate all the work you've put into this update (which I think almost everyone in this topic could use a little more of), and your (probably unintentional) forcing the community to return to building with bricks. :]



EDIT: Another question, will there be a way for hosts to constrain users to a certain set of shaders/having shadows on/off etc? Obviously this would be possible to circumvent but would remain useful for the vast majority of players who can't mess around with their client.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2012, 11:55:00 AM by Wizzeh »

I'd say that this is a dream come true for people who love detailed builds!
I don't think I'm going to feel a big blow from this update and I don't think I'll mind losing the "classic" maps in trade for better graphics. This could open doors to building that never existed before!
Building won't really improve, take a look at regular ROBLOX games, for example, not many people there are good builders.

2. I've never been impressed by a terrain made out of bricks. This partially goes back to a problem I have with landscapes in Minecraft - You can't walk over them smoothly; you have to keep jumping your way up them and falling down them. I hope a set of large ramp bricks changes my mind about this, but smooth rolling landscapes as far as the eye can see was nice to just move around in, let alone actually build and play in.



That's the thing about Blockland - it's more than Lego, where there are more than blocks to build with. Blockland has more than that, you can practically build with anything and make anything.

Just so you guys know, I am professionally involved in the game middleware space - ie game engines. I am very aware of Unity, Unreal, Torque, C4, irrlicht, ogre, etc. and personally know many of the developers who work on them.

Switching engines is an 18 month project and it will kill a lot more features than just interior + terrain - like all the little touches that make the Blockheads so much fun, support for DTS, and other things.

It's much better to improve things incrementally. Players have access to frequent improvements. We can keep making a living off the game. Everyone wins.

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For lighting details, just wait and see. I will not play 20 questions about every possible scenario of the shadows. I am glad you are excited about it! But it's better to post pictures and video as it improves rather than write essays about it.

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That said - bricks will cast shadows based on how they look. Translucent stuff will not cast a shadow. It will work just like the shadows in any modern AAA game.

Ok, so, I have read the FAQ, but I still don't understand - will lighting still go through? If it does, will you work to fix this while the update is out and then update it again, or is the update not coming out anytime soon?

Not every light will have shadows. In general things will look a lot better. Wait and see. -- kompressor
« Last Edit: February 06, 2012, 12:01:49 PM by kompressor »

Building won't really improve, take a look at regular ROBLOX games, for example, not many people there are good builders.

Lighting is something that people can use, but it is limited in its beauty.
Even though I don't know alot about how this new lighting will work, I think that it may add more potential to better looking builds.

Time will tell, and I'm ready for it. c:

wait.
has badspot handed the game to you or something. im confused

So many people have this so backwards.
Blockland should have emphasis on the blocks.
The terrain and interior maps are not what makes the game unique, it is not what gives the game a "special flavor".
Any game made with Torque uses this same kind of terrain generator and interior shapes for maps. Go to any other Torque game and you can plug the Bedroom map into it. But none of those games allow you to place down shapes to create magnificent structures, environments, or custom game-modes the way Blockland does. That is what makes the game unique from the rest, so improving this improves everything.

That said - bricks will cast shadows based on how they look. Translucent stuff will not cast a shadow. It will work just like the shadows in any modern AAA game.

I know I asked it already, but how will this affect bricks like the 1x4x5 window? Will they be classified as translucent by default from now on?