"No Justice No Tree / #ShutItDown" in NYC (Eric Garner Protests)

[$trinick]

alright lets say the car was speeding. sure the person wouldnt have been t-boned if they didnt break the law, but this was also avoidable if the person had not been speeding. the speeding of course being the chokehold.

First off, speeding is almost exclusively done with intent. The chokehold has arguable intent. Second, the speeding is kind of irrelevant unless they slammed their brakes for the stop sign and slid through it anyway. The action that caused the crash was the illegal entering of an intersection, not the speed of the car.

So, with illegally entering the intersection being the cause of the crash, the car committed a literal crime, be it by accident, that resulted in the crash. Even still, they are not responsible for any deaths caused by this mistake.

The officer did not commit a crime when he choked him, so his offense is even less egregious. In both cases, an accident occurs (entering at wrong time / misplaced arm) that directly results in deaths. Since they are legitimate accidents, they are not culpable for the deaths they caused.

did you see the video? when he was in the chokehold you could clearly hear garbled and distressed sounds coming from his throat, and the second they released him is when he started yelling that he couldnt breathe.

I'm gonna go ahead and assume that almost instantly the cop knew he had put him in a chokehold, and 'garbled and distressed' sounds are to be expected when you do that. The thing is, he couldn't just instantly release and try to grab him again. He had no real logical choice but to take him down as swiftly as possible and release the pressure on his neck.

let's say not knowing the man had asthma wasn't the cop's fault, but the man screaming that he couldn't breathe might have been the time to think "hm, maybe i did something to him that i wasnt aware of when i put him in this chokehold, which is already an extremely dangerous thing to do to someone, maybe i should get him help."
but then again, i dont think he's the kind of cop that would do that.

Well, fortunately you're wrong, and he is the kind of cop that would do that. They called an ambulance nearly instantly.

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[Kimon²]

First off, speeding is almost exclusively done with intent. The chokehold has arguable intent. Second, the speeding is kind of irrelevant unless they slammed their brakes for the stop sign and slid through it anyway. The action that caused the crash was the illegal entering of an intersection, not the speed of the car.

alright honestly im not gonna argue about this brown townogy because it cant really apply to the situation

I'm gonna go ahead and assume that almost instantly the cop knew he had put him in a chokehold, and 'garbled and distressed' sounds are to be expected when you do that. The thing is, he couldn't just instantly release and try to grab him again. He had no real logical choice but to take him down as swiftly as possible and release the pressure on his neck.

there was absolutely no reason to take him down in such a manner, even if he didnt forget up a wrestling move so badly that he put him in a chokehold instead of grabbing his arms. he absolutely had the ability to let go of his neck much quicker than that, but he felt the need to pin him on the ground before he did, ultimately costing the man his life. no matter how you spin it, the police officer caused this man's death and they don't deserve to shrug off the blame because he "Accidentally" killed him. he killed him, and he needs to face the consequences.

Well, fortunately you're wrong, and he is the kind of cop that would do that. They called an ambulance nearly instantly.

from the video, im pretty sure i heard a woman on the street say "an ambulance is on the way" implying that she called the ambulance before the cops. but if that didnt happen, they still did nothing but keep his unconscious body on the ground and calmly wait for an ambulance. they definitely could have taken multiple precautions to make sure he survives. one of those being not putting him in a chokehold in the first place, but we've discussed this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atBnYTfhKXw
one could make the argument that he became unconscious on his side, but it genuinely appears as though the police took no precautions besides monitoring the man while waiting.

in fact if you watch the whole thing, they don't even uncuff him, and when the EMS arrives the police officers demand that the man answer their questions, and talk to him as if he's faking it even though it should be pretty clear that he isn't.
for god's sake they even calmly walk away when they finally get him on the stretcher, it's like they don't care at all.
on top of that, once the man was handcuffed they should have gotten off of him immediately. which im almost positive they did not do.

[Dreams_Of_Cheese]

for god's sake they even calmly walk away when they finally get him on the stretcher, it's like they don't care at all.

of course how could i forget the traditional war skip that all police officers do after persecuting a black person
truly shameful that they would ignore such a sacred ritual

[Kimon²]

of course how could i forget the traditional war skip that all police officers do after persecuting a black person
truly shameful that they would ignore such a sacred ritual

you'd think that somebody in immediate danger of losing their life would get rushed to the ambulance

[$trinick]

Most if that is irrelevant / not really making an argument, so I'll focus on the one implied argument:

no matter how you spin it, the police officer caused this man's death and they don't deserve to shrug off the blame because he "Accidentally" killed him. he killed him, and he needs to face the consequences.

The consequences for accidentally killing someone are nil. The exception is when you've actually done something wrong, such as being negligent. It's not negligent to put someone in a chokehold, regardless of NYPD police rules, because you cannot expect a chokehold to kill someone. The Grand Jury really doesn't care what the police code of conduct is, the code of conduct is an internal system for intradepartmental disciplinary action, not legal indictment. So the question the Grand Jury had to ask was, "is a chokehold normally considered lethal force?" The answer is no, so they didn't indict him.

[Kimon²]

Most if that is irrelevant / not really making an argument, so I'll focus on the one implied argument:

l m f a o

The consequences for accidentally killing someone are nil. The exception is when you've actually done something wrong, such as being negligent. It's not negligent to put someone in a chokehold, regardless of NYPD police rules, because you cannot expect a chokehold to kill someone. The Grand Jury really doesn't care what the police code of conduct is, the code of conduct is an internal system for intradepartmental disciplinary action, not legal indictment. So the question the Grand Jury had to ask was, "is a chokehold normally considered lethal force?" The answer is no, so they didn't indict him.

http://martialarts.stackexchange.com/questions/33/how-dangerous-is-it-to-choke-someone-unconscious-or-to-be-choked-unconscious
im not sure where you're getting your information, but chokeholds are EXTREMELY dangerous
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2014/12/03/the-nypd-banned-chokeholds-20-years-ago-but-hundreds-of-complaints-are-still-being-filed/

[Blockzillahead]

because this is yet another case where a cop's carelessness cost a life and jurors believed that there was so little evidence against him, even though they had a recording of the whole encounter, that they couldnt even indict him. maybe you remember the odds of a jury not indicting someone from earlier in the thread?

let me guess... youre black and youre feeling oppressed

[Kimon²]

let me guess... youre black and youre feeling oppressed

[Kimon²]

jesus

[$trinick]

l m f a o

Do you need me to dissect it?

alright honestly im not gonna argue about this brown townogy because it cant really apply to the situation

This is straight up dismissive. No assertions made aside that "it cant really apply to the situation," but since you're dismissing the argument it's not really a point.

there was absolutely no reason to take him down in such a manner, even if he didnt forget up a wrestling move so badly that he put him in a chokehold instead of grabbing his arms. he absolutely had the ability to let go of his neck much quicker than that, but he felt the need to pin him on the ground before he did, ultimately costing the man his life.

Pointless speculation. Not really using logic or being argumentative, you're just stating information that you pulled out of your ass.

no matter how you spin it, the police officer caused this man's death and they don't deserve to shrug off the blame because he "Accidentally" killed him. he killed him, and he needs to face the consequences.

This is the part I acknowledged.

from the video, im pretty sure i heard a woman on the street say "an ambulance is on the way" implying that she called the ambulance before the cops. but if that didnt happen, they still did nothing but keep his unconscious body on the ground and calmly wait for an ambulance. they definitely could have taken multiple precautions to make sure he survives. one of those being not putting him in a chokehold in the first place, but we've discussed this.

This literally ends with "but we've discussed this," which is the semantic equivalent of "nothing I just said matters."

one could make the argument that he became unconscious on his side, but it genuinely appears as though the police took no precautions besides monitoring the man while waiting.

in fact if you watch the whole thing, they don't even uncuff him, and when the EMS arrives the police officers demand that the man answer their questions, and talk to him as if he's faking it even though it should be pretty clear that he isn't.
for god's sake they even calmly walk away when they finally get him on the stretcher, it's like they don't care at all.
on top of that, once the man was handcuffed they should have gotten off of him immediately. which im almost positive they did not do.

None of this is argumentative either. You're just making random statements again that aren't relevant to the argument, which is why he wasn't indicted.

http://martialarts.stackexchange.com/questions/33/how-dangerous-is-it-to-choke-someone-unconscious-or-to-be-choked-unconscious
im not sure where you're getting your information, but chokeholds are EXTREMELY dangerous

Dangerous, sure, but they're not usually considered lethal force. It's quite obvious that nobody thinks he intentionally used lethal force, because if he had used lethal force (e.g. shooting him) for no reason the indictment would have been a no-brainer.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2014/12/03/the-nypd-banned-chokeholds-20-years-ago-but-hundreds-of-complaints-are-still-being-filed/

I already addressed this;

The Grand Jury really doesn't care what the police code of conduct is, the code of conduct is an internal system for intradepartmental disciplinary action, not legal indictment.

[Blockzillahead]

[im g]http://puu.sh/diMZ4/98dcd7c9b7.jpg[/img]

game over for you. there is no argument here because all youre doing is deflecting

[im g]https://33.media.tumblr.com/9e839e20547fb5614c404dab87acf186/tumblr_ng4y1aZ1Zz1r0jlbgo2_1280.png[/img]
jesus

they are referring to him as "African American" when its completely irrelevant. im white and im offended

[Maxwell.]

this dragged on for 75 pages last time did anyone accept they were wrong or did they possibly accept another persons opinion? will it happen again?

[Kimon²]

This is straight up dismissive.

you literally just said "you want me to dissect this?" and then proceeded to do nothing but quote snippets of my post and dismiss them, but this time individually

and when i said "but we've already discussed this" i was referring to the chokehold, not the rest of the completely valid points you ignored.

i'm not sure if i have reason to take you seriously anymore

[Dreams_Of_Cheese]

you literally just said "you want me to dissect this?" and then proceeded to do nothing but quote snippets of my post and dismiss them, but this time individually

and when i said "but we've already discussed this" i was referring to the chokehold, not the rest of the completely valid points you ignored.

i'm not sure if i have reason to take you seriously anymore

what you wrote was dismissive in that it said "im not even going to argue with you because lol"
what he wrote wasn't dismissive because he was explaining how none of what you said mattered

[$trinick]

you literally just said "you want me to dissect this?" and then proceeded to do nothing but quote snippets of my post and dismiss them, but this time individually

That was the point? I was dissecting it and showing you, snip by snip, why most of your content wasn't a valid argument. I'm sort of stunned that you somehow missed that since you thought my assertion that "most if that is irrelevant / not really making an argument" was ludicrous and I was defending myself.

and when i said "but we've already discussed this" i was referring to the chokehold, not the rest of the completely valid points you ignored.

from the video, im pretty sure i heard a woman on the street say "an ambulance is on the way" implying that she called the ambulance before the cops. but if that didnt happen, they still did nothing but keep his unconscious body on the ground and calmly wait for an ambulance. they definitely could have taken multiple precautions to make sure he survives.

Please point out the points, because you're just stating things. What's the argument?

i'm not sure if i have reason to take you seriously anymore

That's funny.