Author Topic: Steam is allowing people to sell workshop content  (Read 20709 times)

skyrim's reviews dropped from 98% to 86% jesus christ

Like I said, the *sale* is the problem, not the money. People have had donation buttons as long as it's been possible. Donations as a money source demands quality, pricing as a money source, when coupled with a stuff system like steam workshop, breeds baiting.
i think that, again, the fundamental idea here is something that can be said about honestly anything that's sold. the "it's always been this way" argument is generally silly, but i don't think that's really what's being said here anyway. there's an essential, underlying idea here that, for one reason or another, people are more entitled to mod content naturally than other types of content, and i simply don't believe that's the case. if someone creates a unique work, i see no reason why they shouldn't have the right to charge for it. donations can reward people for making content, but it does little to actually incentivise talented people to enter or continue modding.

it's important to also realise that it's not just about modders getting paid for their work, it's about expanding the practice of modding into a more professional space where higher-quality content can be delivered through natural market means. this is where the comparison of things like youtube comes in--not in the sense of execution, but in the sense of what it did to turn a niche passion into a profitable industry--introducing monetisation moved the practice into a professional space where talented individuals were then able to reliably commit a significant portion of their time (possibly their full time) on creating content as a career rather than as a hobby.

but you're absolutely right about the terrible system causing problems

http://garry.tv/2015/04/24/paying-for-mods/




rip gmod
seriously that was like the only workshop I cared about, there better not be paid mods

i think that, again, the fundamental idea here is something that can be said about honestly anything that's sold. the "it's always been this way" argument is generally silly, but i don't think that's really what's being said here anyway. there's an essential, underlying idea here that, for one reason or another, people are more entitled to mod content naturally than other types of content, and i simply don't believe that's the case. if someone creates a unique work, i see no reason why they shouldn't have the right to charge for it. donations can reward people for making content, but it does little to actually incentivise talented people to enter or continue modding.

it's important to also realise that it's not just about modders getting paid for their work, it's about expanding the practice of modding into a more professional space where higher-quality content can be delivered through natural market means. this is where the comparison of things like youtube comes in--not in the sense of execution, but in the sense of what it did to turn a niche passion into a profitable industry--introducing monetisation moved the practice into a professional space where talented individuals were then able to reliably commit a significant portion of their time (possibly their full time) on creating content as a career rather than as a hobby.

but you're absolutely right about the terrible system causing problems
Modding is not and cannot become more professional. That is the nature of mods, they are unprofessional, they are hobbyist works, they don't have quality control like products do. Mods have always had the ability to turn into an actual expansion, just look at stuff like starcraft in the 90's, they had "official addons" you could buy, which were essentially polished versions of the top-tier addons. Those mods were turned into products and sold. The difference is that this stuff isn't an "official addon" it's, at best, a quest or new land which might be full of bugs, and, at worst, a stuffty weapon or armor that doesn't even work properly in the confines of the game. The moment you slap a paywall on a mod it becomes something you should be liable for, and that's the thing we're lacking here. No quality control, everything so far is stuff. Even preexisting mods are stuff for compatibility and glitch reasons, the new ones are stuff because they aren't worth forgetall.

rip gmod
seriously that was like the only workshop I cared about, there better not be paid mods
i've already seen paid mods outside of the workshop such as the cash shop thing

Holy stuff this entire debacle is really grinding my gears, now it's just a massive circlejerk clusterforget.

No one is forcing you to buy them, so why be a whinny brat about it? I didn't install very many mods in Skyrim, and I still got like 500 hours out of that game.


Holy stuff this entire debacle is really grinding my gears, now it's just a massive circlejerk clusterforget.

No one is forcing you to buy them, so why be a whinny brat about it? I didn't install very many mods in Skyrim, and I still got like 500 hours out of that game.


well some people think its a decent idea but absolutely horrid execution. I'm inclined to agree.

Modding is not and cannot become more professional. That is the nature of mods, they are unprofessional, they are hobbyist works, they don't have quality control like products do. Mods have always had the ability to turn into an actual expansion, just look at stuff like starcraft in the 90's, they had "official addons" you could buy, which were essentially polished versions of the top-tier addons. Those mods were turned into products and sold. The difference is that this stuff isn't an "official addon" it's, at best, a quest or new land which might be full of bugs, and, at worst, a stuffty weapon or armor that doesn't even work properly in the confines of the game. The moment you slap a paywall on a mod it becomes something you should be liable for, and that's the thing we're lacking here. No quality control, everything so far is stuff. Even preexisting mods are stuff for compatibility and glitch reasons, the new ones are stuff because they aren't worth forgetall.
i disagree one million percent!! it's not in the nature of mods to be unprofessional, it's simply how the culture has always been. just because they have been traditionally hobbyist (just like things such as independent film, writing, artwork, etc.) doesn't mean they can't/shouldn't be industrialised or made into a profitable, viable job. for what reason in particular shouldn't they evolve? the fact that they aren't professional isn't a compelling claim against becoming professional, it's simply a statement of the contrary status quo which is shifting.

one prospect that's exciting to me that i just considered is the possibility of bigger entities coming into the modding scene. valve already had a space core mod on the workshop for skyrim. if modding becomes a profitable business, it's not unlikely that bigger companies will make small side teams to work on mods for games they don't own, which is a really cool concept if you consider what that could actually mean for games. of course, that has some cashgrabby nonsense potential as well, just like DLC, but the possibilities for really cool, high-quality, third-party, licensed content made by skilled teams for already fantastic games is ridiculously fantastic to the extent that i dedicated a paragraph to talking about it. we actually already see this with some patreon-supported maxis guy makin awesome mods for cities: skylines, of course he's acting on his own. what if valve set aside a small team to make a little portal adventure questline for skyrim? would that kind of thing not be amazing? maybe it's just me, but that's something that definitely wouldn't happen if they couldn't profit from the investment

quality control has always been naturally community-run, and will likely continue to be, or the platform itself will provide it. the market will run its course as it does for any other product. another reason why, as it stands, the workshop isn't proving to be a promising implementation of this idea.

in addition, i'm worried this is beginning to deviate from a productive temperament of discussion, so i'll say that i'm not trying to be a big meanie pants mcgee or get up in your face or anything. if at any point you've felt like i'm attacking you or that i've been overly aggressive in my approach, i'm genuinely sorry; i don't want to fight or anything, all i want to do is play a part in a discussion that everyone can take something away from, and that can't happen if the discussion is overly polarised or heated. i guess that's all fluff and nonsense but i'm not lookin to make anyone upset or be upset
« Last Edit: April 26, 2015, 10:39:03 PM by otto-san »

Same here, although it the idea was nice in theory I think the implementation as off by a huge margin. A donation button would have sufficed better than what valve currently has going for them.

i think we need to look at what this could mean for the future, rather than just what it means at its stages of infancy. this is an idea which has a ton of potential if everything kicks off right. unfortunately, valve has dropped the ball horrendously but they don't seem to be giving up yet

note: this was in my above post but i decided it might be better as an individual post so some context might be lost SORRY DAD

why
if this goes to gmod im gonna die

Gmod already had a system like this called coder hire but at least it didn't forget up the game.

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I'm so tired I can't even read/remember what I wrote

EDIT: Ok I think I get what you're trying to say. The reason I say that it's in the nature of mods to be unprofessional (unprofessional being they aren't held to the same standard as something professional, not meaning that everything is stuff) is because once you make them professional and charge for them they stop being mods. They become downloadable content, along with all the implications that includes. That means they need higher quality control, they shouldn't be stuff content, they need to stand on their own legs without requiring we buy a ton of other stuff for them to even work, etc. Selling "payed mods" is like selling lemonade and then giving people water.

I don't give a flying forget if we go full 1998 and start selling "official addons" as DLC, as long as it's ACTUAL loving CONTENT and not some loving stupid bullstuff that doesn't work properly. I'm looking at you, Shadowscale set, you worthless pile of stuff.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2015, 11:08:44 PM by fred da kiko »

Uh Origin?
That falls under the big starfishs.
Origin's fantastic, I've literally never had problems with them. I got falsely banned in BF3 and they got me unbanned and gave me a 50% off coupon code.
This hasn't been a problem for me, but Valve is so stupidly confident in the VAC system that there is literally no appeals process, and I've seen some decent folks get forgeted over by it before.

Origin's fantastic, I've literally never had problems with them. I got falsely banned in BF3 and they got me unbanned and gave me a 50% off coupon code.
This hasn't been a problem for me, but Valve is so stupidly confident in the VAC system that there is literally no appeals process, and I've seen some decent folks get forgeted over by it before.
Only problem is that I don't really like their library. TBH, their customer service is fantastic. They actually helped me with stuff, where I've gone to valve customer support and essentially been told to forget off and fix it myself.