gender neutral kid switched up graduation

[SeventhSandwich]

I love how the apparently radical notion that there are WAY too many people who belong to multiple power majority groups trying to control discussions about power minority groups makes me one of your ACCURSED TUMBLR BOGEYMEN.

Just because your social movements are unable to give minority groups a chance to voice their views does not mean that I am at fault for holding my own perspective. This is the internet, not an actual discussion circle. Voicing my views does not overshadow the views of minorities and it does not silence the views of minorities. Everyone has a chance to speak.

By the way, have you taken any classes about race/loveuality? Because I'd consider that a start to becoming educated...

No, but lacking a degree in gender/africana studies does not render me unqualified to discuss these issues(unless you're arguing that I'm missing some crucial piece of the puzzle because I can't name 5 Harlem Renaissance artists and quote The Feminine Mystique). I think your community refers to what you're doing right now as 'gatekeeping'.

[Ad Bot]

[otto-san]

progressives are the REAL tribalS
I don't think you quite understand me.

probably not because it seemed way out of tone with the rest of the things you were talking about

the way it came across was "white people (or, more accurately in this situation, people not in X set of arbitrary groups, implying more heavily white people), in general, don't understand race or loveuality" which is a fairly bold claim to say the least

[Space1255]

Do you actually think that social justice only exists on tumblr? I do not understand how people get this impression at all.

A fair amount of it sprouts from there, and you are acting like a common Tumblr user, whining about anything that goes against your beliefs.

progressives are the REAL tribalS

I have sources that say otherwise

I don't think you quite understand me.

You are at a global climate science convention. All of the best and brightest climate scientists and the biggest names in climate research are here to discuss climate change. You take your seat in a lecture theater, ready for a highly anticipated speech to be given by THE most famous and most well-respected researcher in the field. He steps up to the podium and welcomes his audience. But just as he starts talking, an audience member in the front row abruptly stands and begins yelling about how everything the researcher is saying is wrong. More of the audience begins yelling, in apparent agreement with the first. Almost immediately, you can't hear a single word that the researcher is trying to say.

That's what talking about social justice on the internet is like.

So, basically, exactly what you're doing right now. Gotcha.
I have a fun game that will get me in shape, every time Amade says something stupid, I do ten leg lifts. Be right back, doing fourty leg lifts.
Edit: every time someone says something intelligent, twenty swings wo a sword-like object at a chair but restrain myself from actually hitting it.
Keep it up, intelligent people!
Gonna count Tris's counter arguments as five sets seeing as it was all in one post.

[IkeTheGeneric]

Your opinion on reclamation is not terribly relevant since you're ostensibly not even a member of any groups that have been subjected to slurs and further are ostensibly not even particularly educated in the matters race/loveuality

Unless you personally know SeventhSandwich, how would you know this? Does Seventh fall into some category or group because his ideologies don't line up with yours?

[TristanLuigi]

You can have all the opinions you want on racial slurs against whites, but your opinion on reclamation of slurs against homoloveuals is really not relevant if you're not a homoloveual, etc

yes they are?
if someone's buying a house and it's not me and i recommend that they don't move into a sewer, is my opinion not relevant?
i mean sure they can just ignore it, but let's say 99 people out of 100 people make that same recommendation
are their opinions relevant? what happens with they move into a sewer and then they're miserable?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_Wegener

he is a scientist
science is about absolute truth and facts rather than opinion
this is not about absolute truth, it's about opinion
this is not comparable to science
(i'm not implying that science as we know it is the truth, but it's about finding such truth)

You may be surprised but BLF is filled to the loving brim with reactionaries; if anything, being in the minority in an argument about social issues on BLF probably means you're not wrong

what
dude the BLF is extremely liberal, but not loving insane about it
if you're underwater, the amazon rainforest looks dry; we only look reactionary to you because you're extremely radical

I love how the apparently radical notion that there are WAY too many people who belong to multiple power majority groups trying to control discussions about power minority groups makes me one of your ACCURSED TUMBLR BOGEYMEN.

i'm not quite sure what you're trying to get at
there's not actually a defense there, just "i'm not an ACCURSED TUMBLR BOGEYMAN"
please, if you're going to try to make a point, don't just exaggerate the opposing viewpoint and preface it with "I love how..."

By the way, have you taken any classes about race/loveuality? Because I'd consider that a start to becoming educated...

we don't need a degree to have an opinion
we live lives too, we hear about this stuff

that is the exact opposite of a reason to stop saying something

but you're not going to get anywhere
saying it to an audience that completely disagrees with you is just going to end up badly
he can say it, but saying to us is a bad idea
also we all agree with the principles of loveual/ethnic/etc equality but Amade is taking it to the extreme and is giving the impression that minorities are better than the majority and that they're horribly oppressed constantly by the law and everyone around them (they're not; while racism and loveism are certainly present, people aren't oppressed)

the way it came across was "white people (or, more accurately in this situation, people not in X set of groups), in general, don't understand race or loveuality" which is a fairly bold claim to say the least

i don't see any other way to interpret that


i'm just going to post now so i don't have 3 pages of quotes that i constantly have to keep editing
also as a personal annoyance can you stop using the word ostensibly every sentence please thanks

and - to both sides - can we stop using sarcasm as a point
putting the opposing viewpoints in quotes is not a valid argument

[Amade]

probably not because it seemed way out of tone with the rest of the things you were talking about

the way it came across was "white people, in general, don't understand race or loveuality" which is a fairly bold claim to say the least

In general, people vastly overestimate the validity of their own opinions. All I'm saying is that people who belong to power majorities will usually not provide new or valid opinions to discussions about social justice, and as such, it's usually better for them to listen and learn. Someone who belongs to a power majority but is well-educated on the issue in question is much more likely to be able to contribute meaningfully to such conversations.

Just because your social movements are unable to give minority groups a chance to voice their views does not mean that I am at fault for holding my own perspective. This is the internet, not an actual discussion circle. Voicing my views does not overshadow the views of minorities and it does not silence the views of minorities. Everyone has a chance to speak.

You can have your perspective, but understand that it's unlikely that anyone wants or needs to hear it. By interjecting into a discussion with e.g. "RECLAMATION IS BAD!" you're undermining the goal of reclamation. It's a controversial issue that's likely to get reactions from people, but those reactions aren't usually productive to share.

No, but lacking a degree in gender/africana studies does not render me unqualified to discuss these issues(unless you're arguing that I'm missing some crucial piece of the puzzle because I can't name 5 Harlem Renaissance artists and quote The Feminine Mystique). I think your community refers to what you're doing right now as 'gatekeeping'.

What are your qualifications, then?

A fair amount of it sprouts from there, and you are acting like a common Tumblr user, whining about anything that goes against your beliefs.

And what the hell do you call what all of the transphobes active in this thread are doing?

By the way, tumblr is mostly research and fandoms. The only people who think that social justice movements are anything but something you have to specifically look for are people who have no idea what they're talking about.

url=http://m.quickmeme.com/img/fa/fa6c3838a655c4b06a606373c6f1d200f9e331cf6498a1dfaf07bcf2a42005c0.jpg]I have sources that say otherwise[/url]

trolling

So, basically, exactly what you're doing right now. Gotcha.

lol ok bud.

Unless you personally know SeventhSandwich, how would you know this? Does Seventh fall into some category or group because his ideologies don't line up with yours?

I prefaced my assumptions with "ostensibly". I'm fully aware that he may be a member of a power minority.

[Dreams_Of_Cheese]

"no guys if you disagree with me your STUPID"

[Space1255]

-Refusing to prove me wrong-

Do I count this as one set or five?
Gonna go with five.
Total sets done (leg lifts): 7
Total sets done (swings): 12

[SeventhSandwich]

That's what talking about social justice on the internet is like.

I've got a much better brown townogy.

You are at a global climate science convention. You stumbled upon it online and were told that all the best and brightest climate scientists would be there. So you show up at the convention center and it's mainly empty save for a bunch of chairs and a ballpit. You take your seat alongside everyone else and soon the lights go down. A guy walks up to the podium and announces, "Today, we're going to be talking about representation of climate scientists in media and how it hurts our cause". Everyone in the audience begins grumbling because they were expecting that he would be talking about climate science, not television shows depicting climate scientists. The guy on the podium shows a powerpoint that compares the number of climate scientists killed in movies versus the number of creationists killed in movies, and starts mumbling something about systematic oppression. People in the audience start getting angry, and the guy on the podium starts sputtering out something along the lines of, "y-you guys aren't scientists. s-s-stop silencing my opinion!". Soon, people start asking to see his credentials, and so he holds up his degree in climate studies from Topeka Community College which has quite obviously been forged with crayons. Before long, everyone leaves except for a small group of people, who then spend the next few hours circlejerking.

By interjecting into a discussion with e.g. "RECLAMATION IS BAD!" you're undermining the goal of reclamation.

That's very much intentional because, like I said, reclamation is pointless and stupid. I'd rather discuss why you think reclamation is a good thing, rather than discussing why I'm apparently unqualified to even mull over the issue in a discussion. Can we transition towards that?

What are your qualifications, then?

My qualifications are irrelevant because you will find some way to interpret how my group/race/educational background renders me unqualified to even discuss these issues. How about we just talk, and when I say something that isn't supported by history or socioeconomics, you can speak up? Oh great gatekeeper of social justice.

[otto-san]

yeah most people here are more or less centre-left iirc

which is why much more right-leaning people like glass and kearn have a hard time in political discussions lol

In general, people vastly overestimate the validity of their own opinions. All I'm saying is that people who belong to power majorities will usually not provide new or valid opinions to discussions about social justice, and as such, it's usually better for them to listen and learn. Someone who belongs to a power majority but is well-educated on the issue in question is much more likely to be able to contribute meaningfully to such conversations.

i get that, but it's not super-useful to use that as a baseline for a person. the reason i said it was tribal was because it seemed to be doing that; rather than accepting that people are individuals with their own unique experiences, seeing them firstly as a constructed caricature.

[IkeTheGeneric]

I prefaced my assumptions with "ostensibly". I'm fully aware that he may be a member of a power minority.

When you're telling people what they're saying isn't relevant because they don't appear to be part of any power minority, you've basically lost the argument.

[Dreams_Of_Cheese]

i think telling someone they cant contribute because of race is tribal, but im a white male so w/e i guess

[TristanLuigi]

In general, people vastly overestimate the validity of their own opinions. All I'm saying is that people who belong to power majorities will usually not provide new or valid opinions to discussions about social justice, and as such, it's usually better for them to listen and learn. Someone who belongs to a power majority but is well-educated on the issue in question is much more likely to be able to contribute meaningfully to such conversations.

You can have your perspective, but understand that it's unlikely that anyone wants or needs to hear it. By interjecting into a discussion with e.g. "RECLAMATION IS BAD!" you're undermining the goal of reclamation. It's a controversial issue that's likely to get reactions from people, but those reactions aren't usually productive to share.
What are your qualifications, then?
You don't. NEED. Qualifications. This is not a scholarly debate.

And what the hell do you call what all of the transphobes active in this thread are doing?
what the forget we're not transphobes we're just sick of people pushing that fact
ok you're a woman now! good for you! we'll call you a she and then get on with our lives, it's annoying to have people constantly point out that they're transgender because it doesn't matter to the rest of the world, we're just going to nod our head and use the right pronoun

By the way, tumblr is mostly research and fandoms. The only people who think that social justice movements are anything but something you have to specifically look for are people who have no idea what they're talking about.
they're not something you have to look for, as evidenced by them showing up in this thread

I prefaced my assumptions with "ostensibly". I'm fully aware that he may be a member of a power minority.
that doesn't help

Amade, stop using the qualifications/"you don't understand because you're a majority without a degree!" card. Your argument, as I understand it, is that we can't be part of the argument. That's not arguing, that's putting your fingers in your ears and going "LALALALALALA I CANT HEAR YOU BECAUSE YOU'RE WHITE LALALALALALA WHERE'S YOUR BEING-ABLE-TO-SPEAK PAPER LALALALALA"

[SeventhSandwich]

i think telling someone they cant contribute because of race is tribal, but im a white male so w/e i guess

"N-n-no it's not! Racism is only racism when it targets a group that's not in power. Racism towards the majority group is called empowerment! I totally didn't just pull this definition of racism right out of my ass!"

[Space1255]

I honestly have to hand it to all of you, I've never felt so fit in my life. Especially you, Amade, my legs haven't felt so sore since I had to do ballet classes for peahen I was an ice dancer.
Context: I made an exercising game out of this thread, it's in one of my posts.