Poll

How is salvation achieved?

Salvation is only for those of faith in a specific church that is the body of Christ.
Salvation is by faith alone, however genuine faith shows good works and/or repentance.
Salvation is by faith alone, and faith does not show and/or require works.
Salvation is by faith and good works.
Salvation is through faith and repentance only.
Salvation is achieved through other means.

Author Topic: Christianity Megathread  (Read 24387 times)

This is one of those rare times Ipquarx where I completely agree with what you just said. Pascal's wager is not a good reason for choosing Christianity. It can just as easily be used to make the case for someone joining Islam or Judaism.

yeah the page acer linked to talks about that
it's a pretty good read, actually

I guess I'd be considered an apatheist. I grew up in a hateful and deeply religious area and after getting out of a bad place I realized that any religious stance I held was just for show so I wouldn't be singled out. I don't really put a lot of thought into what I believe in, so I remained apathetic about it.

according to the flowchart i am an apatheist
even if god existed i wouldn't give a forget about him

according to the flowchart i am an apatheist
even if god existed i wouldn't give a forget about him
what if hes a sock

then i would care and crusade the east to make them aware of the sockdom

add sockdom to the poll please

Jesus christ is my brother

Also I'm homoloveual.

Sorry that some of these replies are to posts that were pages back. Some of the questions were left hanging, so I figured I'd answer. And my apologies if I bumped this topic a bit. To me, this topic is very important, and is worth talking about.

i'm not religious but i believe in god and i believe that jesus died on the cross for us. i just don't follow a lot of things from the bible so i avoid calling myself religious

What things do you not follow exactly? You don't have to answer if you would rather not, I'm just curious.


History books are written by the victor, for all we know the bible is 100% false.

The bible was word of mouth for 500 years until it was finally written. It has also been revised many times and copied down manually by priests whom could have forged their own stories into the book.

But to make such a statement, you have to assume that there is no God working things out for the Bible's creation in the first place.
If God didn't exist, then much of the Bible would of course just be stories.
But if God does exist to ensure the creation of the Bible, then why would you question the Bible in the first place?
You see what I'm saying?



elaborate

what's the point of the change? did you (as a christian in like 1 AD or whatever), all that time, believe that what you were doing was wrong, but did it anyway, because some book told you to? or did you think it was right, until another, similar book told you to stop doing that stuff?
and as a christian in 2016 AD, if the old testament no longer applies, why do you still read it to all your little christian kids? why even read it at all? more importantly, why do you still follow some of its rules?

and beyond that, it has some unpleasant implications, right? your god literally wanted his children to do bad things? being all-knowing, he must have known they were bad, and that he would eventually command them to stop. so, what? he wanted you to do bad things to "set Israel apart from other nations", whatever that means? it just sounds like an excuse to retcon the old stuff cus you realized how awful it sounded

another, only marginally related thing, but why do you trust the bible at all? man is fallible, and god didn't literally strike the words onto the pages himself (why not, by the way? he is supposed to be omnipotent), so how could you know whether or not it's really what god wanted?

The Old Testament absolutely still applies, it is only that we are no longer required to preform all the animal sacrifices and rituals that the Israelites were required to do, and that is thanks to what Jesus did on the cross.

The sacrifices were a mechanism through which God used to not only forgive the sins of the Israelites, but also to help guide them to live a right life. The problem with the animal sacrifices was that they were temporary, and they had to be preformed every year, but they were the best option until it was time for Jesus to come and preform the final sacrifice needed.

Because of Jesus' Death and Resection, the animal sacrifices are pretty much useless, and they need not be preformed. And actually, anyone thinking they still need to preform those sacrifices for forgiveness is mislead, since what Jesus did was lasting and final, and nothing additional needs to be done but for you to accept his forgiveness as a gift.


Also, just because God is all knowing and created humanity, does not mean he wanted us to sin.
One of God's deepest desires is to partner with us (and that was his original intention for this world, by the way. He intended for us to steward this planet alongside Him). However, to have a partnership, both parties really need to have free will for it to actually be meaningful and fulfilling (would you rather have a mindless robot as your companion, or a very trustworthy friend?)

Having free-will of course also involves being able to refuse the partnership. And God knew that Satin would deceive Adam and Eve, and He allowed it as well. And I think the only reason he did was because he know that waaay in the end of it all, it would turn out better for us who chose to partner with Him. His desire is of course for all to be saved, but He will always respect your free-will (which He gave you) and He will not force His will upon you (except perhaps for when he finally must judge and punish people. We are currently living in a very long grace period).


And the reason to trust the Bible is that God wrote it through the hands of those following and trusting Him. He did it that way because of His preference to work with and through people, as I mentioned before. On that note, He DID write the ten commandments on the stone tablets Himself, so there's that.



Lack of evidence

Actually if you know where to look, there is tons of evidence. I can try and round up some if you want. A lot of it I'd have to dig up or spend time explaining, and this post is already getting pretty huge.

contradictions in the Bible

Examples please, if you don't mind.

problem of evil

I kinda addressed that above in reply to Fox.

omnipotence paradox

Wouldn't God be able to create an impossible task and be able to be both unable to complete it while being able to complete it?
Keep in mind, God is outside of time and is beyond our dimensions of space.
I dunno, I'm not the best person to discuss this particular line of thought, to be honest with you.

God doesn't really seem like a benevolent figure based on biblical passages

Examples please, if you don't mind.

many religious people are anti-science

Yes and this is very unfortunate. The Bible does not contradict science, and science is technically the study of God's creation. The more Christians that understand that, the better. Rule-of-thumb, don't be dissuaded from pursuing a better understanding of Christianity just because people mess up.

conservative traditions that I don't agree with

I would ask for examples, but this seems to be a rather personal topic.

some morals from the Bible are backward

Examples please, if you don't mind.

nonsensical and many other philosophical and logical arguments that conflict with Christianity and other religions that I'm not currently thinking of.

I kinda want examples but this sounds like a huge and complex topic. I probably am not the best person to discuss it.

The Old Testament absolutely still applies, it is only that we are no longer required to preform all the animal sacrifices and rituals that the Israelites were required to do, and that is thanks to what Jesus did on the cross.
well there you have it then, I guess. christians are still supposed to be richardheads
Also, just because God is all knowing and created humanity, does not mean he wanted us to sin.
One of God's deepest desires is to partner with us (and that was his original intention for this world, by the way. He intended for us to steward this planet alongside Him). However, to have a partnership, both parties really need to have free will for it to actually be meaningful and fulfilling (would you rather have a mindless robot as your companion, or a very trustworthy friend?)

Having free-will of course also involves being able to refuse the partnership. And God knew that Satin would deceive Adam and Eve, and He allowed it as well. And I think the only reason he did was because he know that waaay in the end of it all, it would turn out better for us who chose to partner with Him. His desire is of course for all to be saved, but He will always respect your free-will (which He gave you) and He will not force His will upon you (except perhaps for when he finally must judge and punish people. We are currently living in a very long grace period).
you aren't really responding to what I said
in the old testament, you are commanded to do things like kill your daughter, under certain circumstances. but surely you understand that stoning your children to death, regardless of the reason, is without question, morally reprehensible?
so are you still supposed to do that? you think that doing so wouldn't be a sin? you agree with that course of action?
hopefully your answer is "no", so the question is why he ever told anyone to do that in the first place
And the reason to trust the Bible is that God wrote it through the hands of those following and trusting Him. He did it that way because of His preference to work with and through people, as I mentioned before. On that note, He DID write the ten commandments on the stone tablets Himself, so there's that.
I get why you trust god. I don't get why you trust the people who wrote the bible. do you trust every christian by default? that would be alarmingly misguided

well there you have it then, I guess. christians are still supposed to be richardheads
you aren't really responding to what I said
in the old testament, you are commanded to do things like kill your daughter, under certain circumstances. but surely you understand that stoning your children to death, regardless of the reason, is without question, morally reprehensible?
so are you still supposed to do that? you think that doing so wouldn't be a sin? you agree with that course of action?
hopefully your answer is "no", so the question is why he ever told anyone to do that in the first place

My intention was to use the sacrifices topic as an example, but I should have clarified a bit more, sorry.

No, you are absolutely not supposed to stone your offspring, or anyone for that matter, any longer.
When I say that the Old Testament still applies, I mean that there are valuable lessons to be learned from it. The only reason any of those sacrifices, brutal practices, ect are no longer important is because of what Jesus did on the cross. But their significance in demonstrating how one should view sin, and how serious the implications of sin really are, are still relevant. We just need to present matters of sin before Jesus now, instead of needing to make atonement through sacrifices or administering judgement on people.

IIRC the only really specific commandment that we are meant to keep still is the practice of tithing, and not because the church needs the money, but because it is a means to express trust in God that he will provide for you.


But anyway, I hope that answers your question a bit better. If I've still misunderstood you or you have followup questions, feel free to say something. I certinally can go into deeper detail if you want.


I get why you trust god. I don't get why you trust the people who wrote the bible. do you trust every christian by default? that would be alarmingly misguided

This is actually a pretty complex issue in some ways haha, but it does come down to trusting God, really.
Like, if the people who wrote the Bible were untrustworthy and wrote down passages which God did not intend to be in the Bible, then wouldn't he ensure that such passages would not eventually be included in the Bible? And why would he even chose someone who was going to write unwanted text in the first place?

We can't go back and get to know the people that wrote the Bible to know if they were trustworthy or not, all we can do is trust that God ensured that what is contained in the Bible is what was meant to be in there.

That might sound like a shaky answer to you, but it's the truth and I really can't think of any better answer at the moment.

And no I wouldn't just trust any random Christian, but I wouldn't close myself off to them or anything.


But to make such a statement, you have to assume that there is no God working things out for the Bible's creation in the first place.
If God didn't exist, then much of the Bible would of course just be stories.
But if God does exist to ensure the creation of the Bible, then why would you question the Bible in the first place?
You see what I'm saying?


so what about ancient islamic and hindu literature? also, you seem to think god's one for intervening. unless he's a malevolent psychopath, this is untrue. if it were true, wouldn't he have to answer for allowing natural disasters/plagues/genocides to happen? or at the very least, unjustified wars and killings done in the name of the christian god? wouldn't he intervene when the christians divided into catholicism, anglicanism, orthodoxy, and the various protestant sects, if he had originally intervened to start christianity in the first place?

Actually if you know where to look, there is tons of evidence. I can try and round up some if you want. A lot of it I'd have to dig up or spend time explaining, and this post is already getting pretty huge.

show me evidence that isn't debunked or sourced by a website named something along the lines of OurSavioursWord or HisWill or NotAbandonedYet

(that is to say, unbiased and scientific evidence. not some claims by some guy whose only claim to fame is having read the bible a lot before buying the domain name.)

IIRC the only really specific commandment that we are meant to keep still is the practice of tithing, and not because the church needs the money, but because it is a means to express trust in God that he will provide for you.

see: snowball effect
see: catholic church
see: martin luther

Also, just because God is all knowing and created humanity, does not mean he wanted us to sin.
One of God's deepest desires is to partner with us (and that was his original intention for this world, by the way. He intended for us to steward this planet alongside Him). However, to have a partnership, both parties really need to have free will for it to actually be meaningful and fulfilling (would you rather have a mindless robot as your companion, or a very trustworthy friend?)

Having free-will of course also involves being able to refuse the partnership. And God knew that Satin would deceive Adam and Eve, and He allowed it as well. And I think the only reason he did was because he know that waaay in the end of it all, it would turn out better for us who chose to partner with Him. His desire is of course for all to be saved, but He will always respect your free-will (which He gave you) and He will not force His will upon you (except perhaps for when he finally must judge and punish people. We are currently living in a very long grace period).

"hey guys you have free will"

(2 people eat some fruit that god said not to eat)

"hey you used your free will so im gonna punish mankind in its entirety as if sins of the father isn't a logical fallacy and im gonna make man mortal and im gonna make women have to suffer and possibly die during childbirth lol"
« Last Edit: August 28, 2016, 08:02:44 PM by Juncoph »

I grew up in a Christian family but slowly moved away and my religion class in college pushed me away farther but gave me some great perspectives and a new fascination about religions

Buddhism is pretty cool
Islam makes more sense than Christianity seeing that the Quran was directly written by Allah where as the Bible was transcribed by man


Buddhism is pretty cool
yea im buddhist its pretty cool