Guy in Arizona gets gunned down by SWAT team

[asablief]

Most less-than-lethal shotguns fire rubber slugs with enough kinetic energy to knock you unconscious if they hit you almost anywhere above the waist

Engaging an enemy with even a less lethal shotgun before identifying can be considered unauthorized use of force. If they used it on this man, it'd be the same travesty with people crying about how swat landed a poor innocent man in the hospital after breaking a bunch of his bones with spraying rubber bullets everywhere ;_; swat so evil

So yes, the lls carries the same rules of engagement and it can kill people.

[Ad Bot]

[stuntman021]

Are you loving kidding me? You're going to waste a good man's life for some stuffty training, That will get more men killed than saved?
Yea yea we have the less lethal shotgun. It's a drug raid. If the guy is high he's not going to feel it, and the less lethal shotgun and taser are known to kill people. OH GOD THE HORRORIf your first reflex is take a bullet for some drug dealing bastard then you're an incredibly bad swat officer and deserve to be dead.
OH YEA body armor so effective, this isn't loving MW3 dumbass, an m16 FMJ round will tear through body armor like paper. Police only wear body armor because it protects from small arms fire. Besides, when I punch you in the face, im not counting on my fist to go through you to kill you.

this isn't max payne dumbass, a less lethal shotgun will still knock a guy out regardless of how doped up he is. also bullets are known to kill people far more than less lethal methods are!
if he starts shooting, then you respond with return fire. THIS is when it is acceptable to return fire, not when some guy is defending his house from possible intruders. also, prove that

[asablief]

this isn't max payne dumbass, a less lethal shotgun will still knock a guy out regardless of how doped up he is. also bullets are known to kill people far more than less lethal methods are!

Covered this.

if he starts shooting, then you respond with return fire. THIS is when it is acceptable to return fire,

Too late, you / your squad members are dead / incapacitated. Good work!

also, prove that

Prove what? That bullet proof isn't magical bullet stopping genius?

[Tokthree]

Engaging an enemy with even a less lethal shotgun before identifying can be considered unauthorized use of force. If they used it on this man, it'd be the same travesty with people crying about how swat landed a poor innocent man in the hospital after breaking a bunch of his bones with spraying rubber bullets everywhere ;_; swat so evil

So yes, the lls carries the same rules of engagement and it can kill people.

Breaking a guys bones is a lot less damaging to public relations than hosing some guy with bullets because one of the SWAT members tripped over like a loving idiot and everyone else in the handicap parade assumed that he had been shot even though there had been no audible bang or visible flash/smoke.
I don't give a stuff about the fact that the guy's dead, what annoys me is that he's dead because some guys in the SWAT forgot that they received training that cost your government a rather pretty penny and decided that shooting can solve all of life's problems.

[Boston Terrier]

did he died

[stuntman021]

Covered this.Too late, you / your squad members are dead / incapacitated. Good work! Prove what? That bullet proof isn't magical bullet stopping genius?

you never covered this???????
please explain why less lethal methods should not have been used in favor of SHOOT KILL KILL
prove that swat-grade body armor won't stop gunfire

[Tokthree]

did he died

No, don't worry, he just got a bit too much Jam over his goggles, if he hides behind a wall for a bit then he'll be fine

[asablief]

Breaking a guys bones is a lot less damaging to public relations than hosing some guy with bullets because one of the SWAT members tripped over like a loving idiot and everyone else in the handicap parade assumed that he had been shot even though there had been no audible bang or visible flash/smoke.
I don't give a stuff about the fact that the guy's dead, what annoys me is that he's dead because some guys in the SWAT forgot that they received training that cost your government a rather pretty penny and decided that shooting can solve all of life's problems.

Who said they hosed him with bullets? You're acting like the SWAT team flipped a stuff and started holding down their triggers.

But then again you're so badass if a man was pointing an M16 at you you'd be so completely calm and chill, right?

you never covered this???????
please explain why less lethal methods should not have been used in favor of SHOOT KILL KILL
prove that swat-grade body armor won't stop gunfire

1. It's a drug raid. Pit a LLS to an m16. Who's going to come out better in this situation?

2. Use your common loving sense if you have any. How is this



going to be stopped by some last-resort body armor when it's being launched at over 80mph? Body armor isn't a magical life saving wizard, it's a last resort to try to preserve someones life 3 weeks later out of the hospital.

http://www.campussafetymagazine.com/Channel/Public-Safety/Articles/2009/09/30-Things-You-Need-to-Know-About-Body-Armor.aspx

#1

[Tokthree]

Who said they hosed him with bullets? You're acting like the SWAT team flipped a stuff and started holding down their triggers.

70+ bullets is hosing it when you're up against one man with one gun.

But then again you're so badass if a man was pointing an M16 at you you'd be so completely calm and chill, right?

No, I probably wouldn't, but that's because I didn't undergo months of rigorous training so that I would be able to make calm and rational decisions in a tight situation which don't involve "Shoot things to make dead" which is the part of this you seem to be missing.
The SWAT are trained to be able to do these things, they don't get that training just so they can say they did and then never actually put it to use in a real situation which demands it, instead of saying "Oh, but you're a tough guy so you could face off against a guy with an assault rifle without shooting at him because you're a god right?" to a person like me who is not even part of the original subject maybe you should get your head out of your big fat arse and stop repeating the same arguments which we've countered successfully several times already

[stuntman021]

Who said they hosed him with bullets? You're acting like the SWAT team flipped a stuff and started holding down their triggers.

But then again you're so badass if a man was pointing an M16 at you you'd be so completely calm and chill, right?
1. It's a drug raid. Pit a LLS to an m16. Who's going to come out better in this situation?

2. Use your common loving sense if you have any. How is this



going to be stopped by some last-resort body armor when it's being launched at over 80mph? Body armor isn't a magical life saving wizard, it's a last resort to try to preserve someones life 3 weeks later out of the hospital.

http://www.campussafetymagazine.com/Channel/Public-Safety/Articles/2009/09/30-Things-You-Need-to-Know-About-Body-Armor.aspx

#1

once again, SWAT TEAMS ARE TRAINED TO BE COMPLETELY CHILL WHEN THERE IS A GUN POINTED AT THEM I HAVE SAID THIS AT LEAST 3 TIMES
if you immediately fire with an lls, the lls comes out top dog. if there's a man pointing a gun at you, less lethal methods are way justified
and see, that's better. just saying "LOL YOU'RE WRONG" doesn't back up your argument as much as providing proof

[masterockets]

Why don't you guys go test those theories, then you can reach an agreement

[pocketrocket300]

Let's recreate this situation in SWAT 4 and see what happens!

[Aces]

So why are these two bickering?

[Tokthree]

So why are these two bickering?

So, what? I don't count?
:C

[Aces]

So, what? I don't count?
:C

I didn't know you were even in the argument, lol.