Author Topic: Dota 2 Megathread: Wraithed  (Read 158962 times)

Probably directed at me but that was mostly an assumption due to poor wording. She still does 150 damage at level 6 with 2 wraith bands, so the nerf doesn't really change her being OP, just makes fighting against her is less costly to your poor base.

Probably directed at me but that was mostly an assumption due to poor wording. She still does 150 damage at level 6 with 2 wraith bands, so the nerf doesn't really change her being OP, just makes fighting against her is less costly to your poor base.
I don't think Drow's massive damage at level 6 and up is a problem. She's ultra squishy and has no hard disables or escapes. Her giant damage is literally all she has, and other carries can deal comparable damage without being so squishy. Pushing all lanes fairly hard no matter what was a problem and I'm glad it's fixed.

Drow isn't OP, she's a stuff hero. People need to understand this.


The only reason she had such a high win rate was because of the pushing power from her E. It's the only reason. Who gives a forget about her "damage" when she's one of the easiest carries to kill, even with a stuffty item like Lothars slapped onto her (it's a horrible item to begin with, but just plain bad on her).

People need to stop complaining about Traxex when she's not even a good hero. If you guys believe she's "OP", then learn the game more, because she's just as easy to counter than Ursa.

A 60% constant slow isn't something to ignore. That's one of the biggest slows in the game, and lets her kite all the melee heroes, as well as chase extremely well with her high attack range. Being ultra squishy can be solved by getting a heart and BKB since you deal so much damage passively spending your gold to tank up isn't a big setback. You'll still be up to par on damage even if you only had boots since she gets so much of it at once.

I've clocked 1000+ hours and almost 800 games. Other people spend just as much time, they'd all agree she was overbuffed and anyone denying that is not checking the numbers. The pushing was icing on the cake, and just because you can counter a hero doesn't mean they aren't going to be good. Lycan was the old "pick hero guarantee win" and now he is almost never played because he got nerfed for being OP. Everyone knew he was OP and it took whole team strats dedicated to stop him from stuffting on every tower before the 20 minute mark.

Sven, Drow and Magnus are the OP trio right now and it doesn't take a lot of reading to realize they're good, don't bother denying it.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2012, 01:24:44 AM by Proog »

A 60% constant slow isn't something to ignore. That's one of the biggest slows in the game, and lets her kite all the melee heroes, as well as chase extremely well with her high attack range. Being ultra squishy can be solved by getting a heart and BKB since you deal so much damage passively spending your gold to tank up isn't a big setback. You'll still be up to par on damage even if you only had boots since she gets so much of it at once.

She's outcarried by nearly every other carry. She's easy to lock down even with BKB. She's just a horrible hero.


I know how easy it is to beat her, making it feel like a 4v5 if I have a good team to back me up. She's that useless. Nowhere near as bad as say Sniper or Meepo, but she's ranked high in the stuff tier.

She's outcarried by nearly every other carry. She's easy to lock down even with BKB. She's just a horrible hero.


I know how easy it is to beat her, making it feel like a 4v5 if I have a good team to back me up. She's that useless. Nowhere near as bad as say Sniper or Meepo, but she's ranked high in the stuff tier.
Comparing her to a melee hard carry late game, sure. But you do realize she gets active over twice as fast with barely any gold investment? No need to farm a battlefury and rice up. You get treads, hit level 6 and you're now the strongest person on the map who can 1 man gank anyone. Anyone with half a brain will capitalize on that, get a huge lead and stomp your ancient.

If she's such a stuff tier hero how come she gets picked up in competitive play? Good teams used to play her a while back, because they know her strengths and weaknesses. There are items to fix that and someone good will adapt and adjust to your counters. She's not picked up now anyway since she's permanently out of the pool due to how big the changes were. You're underestimating how much they do early, and you'll probably laugh when I tell you Sniper is a good carry, so I'll stop here, no need to explain more than needed.

She's OP though, so is Magnus and Sven. Not unbeatable, but they bring too much to the table for one hero.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2012, 01:35:14 AM by Proog »

A level 8 Shadow Fiend who skilled his skills properly will deal 131 damage WITHOUT any items. Not only that, but he has much better flash farm capability and an ult that can change teamfights instead of Drow's passive. If Drow is overpowered, Shadow Fiend is super overpowered (he's not)

Proog, are you clueless? She IS horrible.


Sure she has early game power and all that fancy stuff without needing items, but she is SO EASY TO KILL IT'S NOT EVEN FUNNY.

The only thing she had going for her after her buffs was the global pushing power that was insane, other than that, she had NOTHING good for her.

And of course I'd laugh at you saying Sniper is good, because he brings NOTHING TO THE TEAM, and is just as easy to kill. Early game is cool and all, but when most heroes hit 6, problems arise.

I have no clue where you're gathering this awful information from. If it's from personal experience, get out of low MM. "Early Game Advantage" does not make a hero OP or even mean the game is over.

As for Magnautar and Sven, Magnus has a 3.75 second disable that goes through BKB, and Sven has a Damage buff + Cleave that makes him "Overpowered".

A level 8 Shadow Fiend who skilled his skills properly will deal 131 damage WITHOUT any items. Not only that, but he has much better flash farm capability and an ult that can change teamfights instead of Drow's passive. If Drow is overpowered, Shadow Fiend is super overpowered (he's not)

That's a good point to bring up. I wish Nevermore was overpowered, but he's not, unfortunately (I still love you, my dear Nevermore).
« Last Edit: December 20, 2012, 01:43:40 AM by Yogamoanyo v2 »

A level 8 Shadow Fiend who skilled his skills properly will deal 131 damage WITHOUT any items. Not only that, but he has much better flash farm capability and an ult that can change teamfights instead of Drow's passive. If Drow is overpowered, Shadow Fiend is super overpowered (he's not)
Shadow Fiend gets static numbers for bonus damage. Percentage based things like Drow's aura aren't going to be as strong early game as the 32 souls SF has stashed up. He also has 3 nukes which when landed properly give him more early game damage. He's built around being a strong laning carry from his skills, meaning he can get utility items early game, and transition into the later stages with the -armour aura and still deal good damage even though he doesn't have a whole lot of damage items.

He's a strong hero, I won't deny that, especially since the ult buff makes ganking him a less reliable way of shutting him down. He doesn't have any built in lock down skills to solo gank though, and he's equally as squishy as drow, having no built in escape either.

Sniper is one of the most item dependent hard carries who gets picked if you wanted to do a 4+1 strategy and turtle up forever. His skills let him stay inside a safe zone farming while pushing the enemies back, buying time to scale naturally as well as with his full inventory.With the headshot buff, his damage output and disruption made him good at harassing people out of his lane. There's a massive ult nuke specifically for KSing when people are out of reach so you get the gold you need. He's meant to be unbearably easy to kill because he relies so much on positioning, hence the long ranges. If you gave Sniper any mobility or escape mechanics, you suddenly have a fast moving assassin who can kite you forever.

Trying to call me out on being in low MM is pretty funny though. I'm no professional but I've looked up enough of this in my spare time to brown townyze these kinds of things. If you want I'll give you the specific numbers for Drow to get my point across.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2012, 01:55:12 AM by Proog »

Shadow Fiend gets static numbers for bonus damage. Percentage based things like Drow's aura aren't going to be as strong early game as the 32 souls SF has stashed up. He also has 3 nukes which when landed properly give him more early game damage. He's built around being a strong laning carry from his skills, meaning he can get utility items early game, and transition into the later stages with the -armour aura and still deal good damage even though he doesn't have a whole lot of damage items.

He's a strong hero, I won't deny that, especially since the ult buff makes ganking him a less reliable way of shutting him down. He doesn't have any built in lock down skills to solo gank though, and he's equally as squishy as drow, having no built in escape either.

Sniper is one of the most item dependent hard carries who gets picked if you wanted to do a 4+1 strategy and turtle up forever. His skills let him stay inside a safe zone farming while pushing the enemies back, buying time to scale naturally as well as with his full inventory.With the headshot buff, his damage output and disruption made him good at harassing people out of his lane. There's a massive ult nuke specifically for KSing when people are out of reach so you get the gold you need. He's meant to be unbearably easy to kill because he relies so much on positioning, hence the long ranges. If you gave Sniper any mobility or escape mechanics, you suddenly have a fast moving assassin who can kite you forever.

Trying to call me out on being in low MM is pretty funny though. I'm no professional but I've looked up enough of this in my spare time to brown townyze these kinds of things. If you want I'll give you the specific numbers for Drow to get my point across.

I never really called you out on being in low MM, I was just saying if you're in it, get out of it. I can tell you at least know some things you're talking about...

I've done numbers, and testing, and this, and that, ect, ect, on EVERY hero, especially the ones in the more "stuff" tier, but it doesn't stop some heroes from being plain BAD. Even with items, or not, or a specific team strat, or this, or that.

I've played Dota 1 and 2 long enough to know the ups and downs and how things have worked over time. I've seen enough competitive play. I know enough.

Sniper is very item dependent, yes, but even with items, he's still useless. Nothing in his kit can help him make up for him being so bad, especially with Shrapnel essentially giving up an ability slot. With how his kit is set up, he's just not good, or will he be getting good any time soon. He's basically been called the worst and most useless hero in the game by a lot, even with his most recent buffs.

As stated earlier, Traxex has really never been good. The only thing that made her slightly decent was her pushing power from her E when they did that buff to her, but that's basically the only reason why you'd want her on your team. She'd get killed too easily otherwise, guaranteed. And as with Sniper, her kit right now really won't help her become much better.

You can go on and on, but you need to realize, Traxex is not a good hero, and she hasn't been in a long time, if not ever. Sniper is just god awful, so don't even bother about going into that.

Shadow Fiend gets static numbers for bonus damage. Percentage based things like Drow's aura aren't going to be as strong early game as the 32 souls SF has stashed up. He also has 3 nukes which when landed properly give him more early game damage. He's built around being a strong laning carry from his skills, meaning he can get utility items early game, and transition into the later stages with the -armour aura and still deal good damage even though he doesn't have a whole lot of damage items.
Drow would need a whopping 288 agility to gain the bonus that Shadow Fiend does from his Level 4 Necromastery. A max level Drow with the full agility bonus from her ult has roughly 151.6 agility. She would need more than 100 agility added on to that to match the bonus damage from Necromastery. Seriously, unless you're looking at an ultra late game situation, Drow's aura is worse than Shadow Fiend's Necromastery. (In terms of straight damage for the hero only. Drow's aura is admittedly better for her team as bonus hero damage is pretty good)


Greevil with lvl3 hook is fun.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOYGkw_16go

It looks fun, same with Greevil Hole.


But I do enjoy what I have, the kit for mine is fine and I basically turn over games with it.


Tails, care to join me? I don't have anybody else to play with right now, really.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2012, 06:19:16 AM by Yogamoanyo v2 »

Anybody want to listen to 4 people talking about dota while playing greevilmass? Yes? Good.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bwob20OKolc

I'm the british one who only talks about 3 times. The others sound like americans and therefore the same.

Just got game, any pointers?