Super Smash Bros. For Wii U & 3DS: MEWTWO CODES GOIN OUT

[Niff]

The real problems I have with competitive players and all those obscure strategies is that it just shows how averse people are to change by trying to find those strategies. If you want Melee, play Melee. Not hard.

that reminded me of my friends Infernape strategy, choise scarf, close combat, usually very op

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[otto-san]

The real problems I have with competitive players and all those obscure strategies is that it just shows how averse people are to change by trying to find those strategies.

Does it? These are people that are going out of their way to utilise the quirks of the game's engine to further their abilities and reach a higher level of play in order to better compete in a competition level. So long as this is not blatantly unfair and abusive, there's no issue with this. It has very little to do with change and everything to do with finding new ways to get an upper hand on your competition. It's certainly unfair to new players that want to go online and try their hand at playing against real players, but without a proper rank matching system, it's very hard to avoid this regardless. These are the kinds of people that make up the hardcore player base of a fighting game. The reason why they look for these strategies isn't because they think it makes the game better; it's because it makes their play better, and that's the key. Hardcore fighting game players have no interest in wrestling with a broken game. They want a game with good, tight, and controllable mechanics which present a wide variety of possibilities for strategy whilst requiring the player to command a great deal of mastery over their exact nature. This is exactly what players are doing, and it's honestly the mark of a good fighting game. Again, so long as it isn't exclusively abusive.

Not trying to be rude or sound angry; I just enjoy discussing this kind of thing.

[Zanaran2]

I agree with you on that, but even still people complain about how Smash 4 has this and Smash 4 has that. Just play your beloved holy Melee (with 1/5th of the cast being clones js) and keep it out of here. (Not directed at you.)

[Aces]

My fav thing is when people believe that Smash is geared towards actually technical competitive play

Like it's a legit fighting game.

[otto-san]

There were some slight engine changes during the Melee->Brawl transition (though, for the most part, they stayed fairly similar on a purely technical mathematical basis), and I can understand if some prefer Melee. Players that are a part of the hardcore Melee player base could probably provide more interesting points concerning the specific elements they prefer, but I never played Melee on a competitive level. I don't think it's really fair to dismiss their views objectively since there are certainly differences, and there are certainly good points about why they might be better one way or another.

My fav thing is when people believe that Smash is geared towards actually technical competitive play

Like it's a legit fighting game.

Smash is definitely not targeted to a specifically competitive player. The game is pretty cleverly designed to make it a casual party game that anyone can pick up and play and get good at. It still has everything there to be competitive, but true fighting game veterans would probably be left thirsty since the gameplay isn't extremely deep compared to other popular games in the genre.

[Moriarty]

My fav thing is when people believe that Smash is geared towards actually technical competitive play

Like it's a legit fighting game.

it's not geared toward it but there is definitely a lot of technical knowledge to have if you're going to be playing melee
like if you can prove me wrong then do it but otherwise lol

[Zanaran2]

Still, why complain about a game that has an alternative your community literally grew up on?

[otto-san]

Complaints have value. Whining has little value, but it's not very productive to apply that label to someone's thoughts. I generally don't agree with the sentiment of going backwards, but if someone has good ideas about why having certain lost mechanics benefits the game as a whole, that's pretty great feedback. People that are die-hard fans of something tend to have a lot of interesting insight into what would/has and wouldn't/hasn't work/worked; the kinds of things you only get the feel for after experiencing it from many different angles and many different perspectives, seeing it evolve and grow as time goes on.

I guess what I'm saying is: people that have put a significant amount of time into mastering a game tend to pick up interesting insight into not only the game at a face value, ie its mechanics and characteristics, but also into its very design and nature. That kind of thing is extremely valuable when considering design changes, or when considering if a design change actually benefited the game as a whole.

[Zanaran2]

but if someone has good ideas about why having certain lost mechanics benefits the game as a whole

The reason why they look for these strategies isn't because they think it makes the game better; it's because it makes their play better, and that's the key.

Hmm.
And wavedashing isn't a mechanic. It's a strategy. Same with L-canceling and all that other gobbledygook.

[otto-san]

Hmm.

Those were two different subject matters. The first post (chronologically) was concerning the development of advanced strategies for competitive play in any Smash game, or any fighting game in general. The second post was concerning discussion about differences between Melee and later iterations in the series.

And wavedashing isn't a mechanic. It's a strategy. Same with L-canceling and all that other gobbledygook.

You're right. I've incorrectly used "mechanic" as an all-encompassing term when a word such as "technique" would be a better fit for some of the things we've talked about.

[Obliviongate20]

nintendo should just port melee and the original game to the wii u and then throw in some online compatibility

that way everyone could be happy playing melee (which even though i don't care for all that technologic stuff) or just play the original for nostalgia and a way more simple approach

[pwnfulz]

nintendo should just port melee and the original game to the wii u and then throw in some online compatibility

that way everyone could be happy playing melee (which even though i don't care for all that technologic stuff) or just play the original for nostalgia and a way more simple approach

You don't even know how competitive Smash 64 is

[Moriarty]

You don't even know how competitive Smash 64 is

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2ATy53FSb8

[ultimamax]

The real problems I have with competitive players and all those obscure strategies is that it just shows how averse people are to change by trying to find those strategies. If you want Melee, play Melee. Not hard.

None of the discovered strategies are an attempt to "recreate" Melee by any means. Players are just trying to find quirks about the game that may help them improve their play. This would happen for any Smash game. Has nothing to do with Melee.

Hmm.
And wavedashing isn't a mechanic. It's a strategy. Same with L-canceling and all that other gobbledygook.

I'd say they're both mechanics. L-cancelling was purposefully ported from 64 by the developers (before it was called "Smooth Landing")
Sakurai observed wavedashing in the development of the game and left it in, probably not realizing people would end up using it so often.

[Moriarty]

L-cancelling was purposefully ported from 64 by the developers (before it was called "Smooth Landing")
Sakurai observed wavedashing in the development of the game and left it in, probably not realizing people would end up using it so often.

the smooth landing thing is also supported by there actually being items with smooth lander as a prefix that basically is supposed ot be automatic l-canceling