Author Topic: The big word: Religion  (Read 12462 times)

creating life isn't complex at all, and spontaneously, it would have been possible.
just because we cant recreate it (yet) don't mean its not possible. something religious people have yet to learn

what is a living cell anyway, if not proteins, plasmas, other natural elements, and a little electrical charge.
i can see it happening in nature in one point of time.

People believed it because it was unknown, and not proven. Now, the Earth has been proven to be spherical, so we believe it. That's not a guess, that's a fact. The world isn't going to suddenly be revealed as a box and then scientists will say "Oops, we guessed wrong.".
My point is that we may think we know everything, when most of out concepts are flawed until proven otherwise. We know the Earth is a sphere because we have seen it. But, how do we explain what we do not yet know? Through guessing.

Science is just opinions that we accept as fact because it makes sense. Most of science is just best guess
you really have no idea what science is do you. or is this what your priest teaches you?
I know what I'm talking about Bisjac, obviously you don't. This just reinforces the fact that complication of truth leads to confliction. A true christian or someone who has firm belief in a truth will not resort to insulting someone just because they have different beliefs.

If God made those particles and everything else, what created him? To me, those particles were always there and always have been. Just as your god has. The world is a mixed society of religions. This is why I hate talking to Christians about religion, they start implying that everything in their faith is correct. Well, it's not. Islam, Judaism, Buddhism, whatever. They could be just as correct as any other religion.

As far as I know, Athiest (though not a religion, but a belief) has had the most evidence proving their theory. One book isn't going to help anything, especially after it's been rewritting several times by multiple people.

Also, it makes perfect sense to not believe in a higher figure. To me, religious people seem to be insecure about their lifetime, so they look for a higher being and a sanctuary of afterlife to feel safe for their life. If you want to continue this arguement, be my guest.
I'm only continuing this argument because we are heading into a loop of ignorance (no offense to you Illidan because you are providing a good perspective in the debate). To me, people who are insecure about life are not religious people, but rather people who where raised believing something, and then are introduced to new perspectives. That is why religion is a touchy subject.

Reality is not real, and science can not prove that it does exist. It is a fact that reality only exists inside our mind, and we experience it through our senses. This shouldn't be so hard to believe because we experience this as well when we sleep; our mind randomly creates scenarios and locals that we never thought of before. For some of us, our senses even seem to function during dreams. But, why is it that we still believe reality to be real? Because we were brought up believing it is real, when it is more like a sofisticated lucid dream. If anyone can prove to me that there is some kind of default reality that exists outside of ourselves, only then will I accept that they might be right.

creating life isn't complex at all, and spontaneously, it would have been possible.
just because we cant recreate it (yet) don't mean its not possible. something religious people have yet to learn

what is a living cell anyway, if not proteins, plasmas, other natural elements, and a little electrical charge.
i can see it happening in nature in one point of time.
Creating life isn't complicated you say? If it wasn't complicated, we would have already perfected it by now.

Creating life isn't complicated you say? If it wasn't complicated, we would have already perfected it by now.

that can be said about any scientific advancement over the years, that we have perfected by now.
when will you god folk stop slowing down the world. why discourage every thing for fear that you might not need god because of it?

Recreating life is more complicated then creating a robot or some A.I. program; we can't manufacture life like we do electronics. And explain to me how we are "slowing down" the world, because it seems to me that we are some of the people who contribute to maintaining good in the world today. Also, you have yet to answer my question:

"Reality is not real, and science can not prove that it does exist. It is a fact that reality only exists inside our mind, and we experience it through our senses. This shouldn't be so hard to believe because we experience this as well when we sleep; our mind randomly creates scenarios and locals that we never thought of before. For some of us, our senses even seem to function during dreams. If anyone can prove to me that there is some kind of default reality that exists outside of ourselves, only then will I accept that they might be right. But, why is it that we still believe reality to be real when we can not prove that it is?"

of course religions slow the world down. its like they want nothing to change.
for hundreds of years people had to fight tooth and nail with religion to be allowed to study things and developed things and teach things.
and in modern days we can benefit  from it. no thanks to the holy men and woman of the world trying to stop them from reaching these goals.
and its still happening. a big one now is stem cells.
its a huge WTF to ignorant god lovers to stop the study of a great medical achievement that we need.

yaay stem cells help us save people and clone stuff

BUT THEY ARE EVIL

evil because its gods job to save people.

god forbid we do for ourselves

How do they get it that stem cells are bad?

Wow, now your throwing in that religions slow down the world... So now lets get off the "fact bus" and start the opinions...

Really, Its only a few Christians that believe stem cell research is bad, I say if God gave us the means to do it, then he meant for us to do it...

Wow, I slowed the world down and didn't even know it, eat your heart out superman.

Seriously, the best argument you can raise is that we are slowing down stem cell research? Are we stopping research for a cure for cancer? Which of those two is more important? We are not slowing down anything. Without morals, we would propably research better ways to execuate people or something like that. Religion holds the world together better than you know or wish to believe. Even entrepreneur in said that the would could be very chaotic without religion. Did you know that our calendar, years, time, and country is based on religion? Fell free to go ahead and change all of that.

And Bisjac, you still haven't answered my question, and I asked it three times. I'm not trying to flame you, but it does provide that science doesn't explain everything. We can't prove life is real outside ourselves, and yet we believe in it because we sense it. Yet, some of us choose not to believe in God because we can not sense him. This doesn't make much sense. Science doesn't explain reality, and scientists have been baffeled over this for many years. Science also can't tell us what the meaning of life is. Religion has two simple answers: Reality is just a test of choice to choose God or not, and the meaning of life is to find salvation. What does your science say? Nothing, and that is where science falls short.

I'm tired of debating this when you can't even answer a question that challenges what you believe. You are the only one still arguing here, and you are acting on pride alone, when we are not trying to make you look foolish. But, remember that I just left a hole in your bullet-proof belief in nothing.

Did it ever occur to you that God works through science? If God helps somebody, he doesn't shove a giant hand through the clouds, he acts in a way that can not be seen. He acts through nature. I would tell you about my "devine encounters," but you are just trying to make me look foolish so there would be no point.
If he only acted through nature it wouldn't even matter if he exists or not, and it definitely wouldn't serve as proof of anything.

Although, tell me that you haven't heard of strange occurances: a child falling from a three story window onto the pavement and surving without any complications, a person somehow gaining the strength the lift a two ton car to save their son, a worker getting sucked into a jet engine and be able to climb out with minor damage. Did your science do that?
Three stories? That's hardly miraculous. Lifting a two ton car? Have you heard about this natural hormone called adrenaline? Living after having been sucked into jet engine? Although unlikely, it did happen without any apparent godly intervention (his helmet jammed the rotor blades). Let's rhetorically say that these were all acts of God, though. That would only mean that God acts very randomly and that he isn't as just as the Bible makes him seem.

People are dying from hunger all over the world, children are being tortured and raped and thousands of people kill themselves out of loneliness. Isn't it strange that God acts not by saving these people, but by letting some guy (working on getting a war machine ready to fire some missiles at people, none the less) survive being sucked into a jet engine?

I'm saying that if God exists and is almighty and all that, he is either
1. Passive (out of curiosity perhaps) and has no real impact on or lives at all. That means that it doesn't matter if he exists. It also means NO MIRACLES!
2. Active, in which case he is a very cruel and inconsiderate being, showing that he can in fact act through miracles but only does so occasionally, and on a seemingly random basis.

And why do you have little respect for people who believe in God? What did we do to you?
I never said that. I said that have little respect for anyone who believes that God created the world. To elaborate, I find it hard to respect anyone who believes that God physically does stuff at all. It's not because you did anything to me at all; it's more like you would disrespect an idiot. Not out of hate, but because you wouldn't trust him to do anything because he's stupid.

You blindly accept that he doesn't exist because that is the way you were raised. So how does that make you different from us, if that logic is to be believed?
The difference is that I don't blindly accept anything. My beliefs are based on logical conclusions that I can draw from what I see myself.

It is a fact that when truth is recognized, competition is created. Everyone believes in reality because they experience it thorugh their senses, but nobody can prove that reality exists outside of our minds. But, go ahead and don't believe in God just because you can't sense him.
Reality is always real because the word essentially means "how everything actually is". What we perceive as reality might -- while unlikely --  be different from what is actually real, though. Does that even matter? In the end it's only what we percieve as real that matters.

To all those arguing that religion dictates moral and that chaos would ensue if the Bible didn't tell us what's wrong: Are you really that cynical? People in general are more empathetic and considerate than you seem to think. It's not like everyone acts nice and friendly out of fear of being smitten by God or sent to hell. Modern western philosophy has taught me more about morals and ethics than the Bible ever could, anyway.

and bisjac, Even if i were to believe that it is me making a difference, God created me and is inside me, So if God created me and I do something good myself then inadvertly I am acting because God made me for good. so either way you put it, it still all goes back to God.
So did the God in Adolf Riddler kill all those Jews? It would sort of make sense, them still not accepting Jesus as the anointed one and all.

Hmm, it could be that or maybe God just forgot Riddler and left him behind.

Religion itself is not "exact". It is a metaphor, it expresses many different stories that may mean completely different things from what you might have imagined while reading it. This is both a blessing and a curse, as religion is a wonderful read that teaches anyone limitless moral, but it can also be heavily misinterpreted.
This passage is not very ambiguous, though:

'If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.' (Leviticus 20:13)

Christianity has taught me limitless morals. Now I'm off to bash some friends. See you later.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2008, 02:44:32 PM by Linde »


God got lazy on the 6th day and made mercenary, Young link and Mangobean.