This is why I kept my views on feminism away from my family.

[Col. Derontchi]

problem is you seem to be focusing exclusively on radical feminists and somehow applying your conclusions from them to the whole feminist spectrum

How do you know they are radicals? What makes them a radical?

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[Ipquarx]

Well, I've been trying to explain how feminism is not about equality, but that's been covered up by the neverending posts. I don't even know what to start with. Anything particular you had in mind?

Okay, so now you see the problem with this, that people have with this argument, is that the fundamental definition of feminism is equality of the genders, or to at least get the genders as close as possible to equality as they can be with their psychological and physiological differences. Are you arguing that in practice, in terms of historical events and "feminism" movements, that they are not working towards equality? If so, you need to start providing evidence of that.

Furthermore, if you want to really drive the point home, you want to not only show that some feminists fight for non-equality, but that the majority of feminists fight for non-equality. If you want to do that you're going to need a hell of a lot more proof.

[Darryl McKoy]

How do you know they are radicals? What makes them a radical?

Their ideology

I'm not calling them radical because I think they are, it's a viewpoint relative to feminism as a whole. Radical feminists usually call themselves radical feminists.

[Col. Derontchi]

Their ideology

I'm not calling them radical because I think they are, it's a viewpoint relative to feminism as a whole. Radical feminists usually call themselves radical feminists.

I am not addressing solely radicals, only what I have observed.

Okay, so now you see the problem with this, that people have with this argument, is that the fundamental definition of feminism is equality of the genders, or to at least get the genders as close as possible to equality as they can be with their psychological and physiological differences. Are you arguing that in practice, in terms of historical events and "feminism" movements, that they are not working towards equality? If so, you need to start providing evidence of that.

Furthermore, if you want to really drive the point home, you want to not only show that some feminists fight for non-equality, but that the majority of feminists fight for non-equality. If you want to do that you're going to need a hell of a lot more proof.

I have been dropping specific examples of this inequality this whole time, but I do not blame you for not picking them up as they have been continuously drowned out. I'm going to need a few minutes to get my head back on and collect my thoughts, but you will have your evidence. Mark my words.

[Darryl McKoy]

I am not addressing solely radicals, only what I have observed.

You need to realise there's a lot more to the discussion than 'what you have observed'. You have obviously observed a very small subset of this whole thing. You should be reading into this a lot more before you form these concrete views. It makes you a fool, not smart.

[Col. Derontchi]

You need to realise there's a lot more to the discussion than 'what you have observed'. You have obviously observed a very small subset of this whole thing. You should be reading into this a lot more before you form these concrete views. It makes you a fool, not smart.

How can you be certain? I have observed the mainstream news, feminist news, others' experiences, and my experiences. I'm still waiting to finally see that "real feminism".

[Bloody Mary]

What was your comment? I can't assess if your mother's reaction was justified without reading it myself. My apologies if you've already posted it.

[Ipquarx]

How can you be certain? I have observed the mainstream news, feminist news, others' experiences, and my experiences. I'm still waiting to finally see that "real feminism".

I don't think anyone has such a wide understanding of feminism that they've actually observed exact statistics on the views of "all of feminism," and no offense but you certainly don't either. That's why I said if you want to prove that the majority of feminists fight for non-equality you are going to need an extreme amount of proof, because, as the saying goes, "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof."

[Col. Derontchi]

What was your comment? I can't assess if your mother's reaction was justified without reading it myself. My apologies if you've already posted it.

"Further proof that feminism is not about equality". That was it.

I don't think anyone has such a wide understanding of feminism that they've actually observed exact statistics on the views of "all of feminism," and no offense but you certainly don't either. That's why I said if you want to prove that the majority of feminists fight for non-equality you are going to need an extreme amount of proof, because, as the saying goes, "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof."

Feminists fight and/or advocate for inequality directly and indirectly. We must define this first. First, by ignoring men's side of everything, there is no equality that can exist with only one side. It's a two-sided concept. By not speaking up for one side deliberately, you are indirectly fighting for inequality. Then there are those who write articles such as "white men should just stop writing", or "feminists don't hate men, but it wouldn't matter if we did". My head is still spinning from the last 4 hours of insanity, so forgive me for not having them readily available. I will add more over time.

[Ipquarx]

We must define this first. First, by ignoring men's side of everything, there is no equality that can exist with only one side. It's a two-sided concept. By not speaking up for one side deliberately, you are indirectly fighting for inequality. Then there are those who write articles such as "white men should just stop writing", or "feminists don't hate men, but it wouldn't matter if we did". My head is still spinning from the last 4 hours of insanity, so forgive me for not having them readily available. I will add more over time.

Go on, gather as much evidence you want with as much time as you need. Write a goddamn paper with APA citations if you really want to. I'll look at the facts as objectively as I can. I'll just need a thesis statement to determine if you've actually achieved what you were trying to argue in the first place, because I don't think you've made it perfectly clear what precisely you're arguing quite yet, because "Feminism is not an equality movement" is ambiguous, are you talking about the ideas themselves of feminism, or the people in the movement (In which case there's another layer of ambiguity, where you don't specify what amount of feminists you're trying to prove don't fight for equality), or the historical events concerning feminism? A combination of those or other ideas? Be as specific as possible! I'm going to bed for now, so cya all.

[Darryl McKoy]

How can you be certain? I have observed the mainstream news, feminist news, others' experiences, and my experiences. I'm still waiting to finally see that "real feminism".

Don't you get it? There is no overarching "real feminism". It is a spectrum of different views, ideologies, theories etc. You will never see a "real feminism". You will also never learn anything valuable if you're watching the news to learn about feminist ideologies.

I learnt about various feminist ideologies when I was doing my criminology units at university. Most of them actually had to do with different forms of masculinities and how they apply to male youth crime. Feminism is not as clear cut as you seem to believe.

[Col. Derontchi]

Fair enough.

Don't you get it? There is no overarching "real feminism". It is a spectrum of different views, ideologies, theories etc. You will never see a "real feminism". You will also never learn anything valuable if you're watching the news to learn about feminist ideologies.

I learnt about various feminist ideologies when I was doing my criminology units at university. Most of them actually had to do with different forms of masculinities and how they apply to male youth crime. Feminism is not as clear cut as you seem to believe.

I'm not talking about ideologies. I'm talking about feminism's direct impact on society based on its actions. I've seen it reported in the news. I've watched feminists talk about it. I've been arguing that feminism is not clear cut this whole god damn time, in terms of branches and the like, that there is no "real feminism", hence the quotations.

[Bloody Mary]

"Further proof that feminism is not about equality". That was it.

That's not too inflammatory but it's a little brusque. Are you still taking that Feminist Study course or whatever it was called? I don't think saying something like that would go over well in that environment.

[Darryl McKoy]

Fair enough. I'm not talking about ideologies. I'm talking about feminism's direct impact on society based on its actions. I've seen it reported in the news. I've watched feminists talk about it. I've been arguing that feminism is not clear cut this whole god damn time, in terms of branches and the like, that there is no "real feminism", hence the quotations.

Unless you're aware of every branch and every theory, you cannot possibly quantify its direct impact on society. Feminism is more than what you see on the news.

[Frequency]

Radical feminists usually call themselves radical feminists.

I'm not sure about that. I don't think most radicals acknowledge that they're radical. it's usually just an assessment by others based on how, well, radical they are acting.