Author Topic: Presidential Elections Discussion 2016 (Read 17407 times)

Clownfish · January 13, 2016, 11:38:51 PM

Quote from: IkeTheGeneric on January 13, 2016, 11:15:35 PM

They have, Bear_Tracks just really doesn't understand how anything works

^the word idiot is not in this post^

Quote from: Bear_Tracks on January 13, 2016, 11:20:23 PM

Keep saying that I'm an idiot, if you can show me what views of Bernie's have changed within the last fifty years - I'd be glad to see the information. If you cant find it, please don't call me an idiot. You don't have to resort to namecalling in every instance Ike.

caribou you're losing your composure

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Trogtor · January 13, 2016, 11:40:36 PM

Kaiiu� · January 13, 2016, 11:45:09 PM

Quote from: ShadowsfeaR on January 13, 2016, 10:41:45 PM

This is a problem. The fact that you don't care about the wellfare of a country is the reason we have problems with education and crime. You can't get something from nothing. I'd argue one of the reasons that gun crime is so gross here compared to ""socialist"" countries is that their education is a helluva lot better on a national scale than ours. If you have a country of stupid people, they'll do stupid stuff because they don't know better.

except the solution to these issues isn't as simple as just "throw more money at them and it will all go away"
just because you might feel like these things are important enough to give away your hard earned money doesn't mean that i do. fixing education isn't as simple as throwing money at it like sanders thinks, and the government has shown that even with this money many times they're unable to make much progress

ShadowsfeaR · January 13, 2016, 11:50:57 PM

Quote from: Kaiiu� on January 13, 2016, 11:45:09 PM

except the solution to these issues isn't as simple as just "throw more money at them and it will all go away"
just because you might feel like these things are important enough to give away your hard earned money doesn't mean that i do. fixing education isn't as simple as throwing money at it like sanders thinks, and the government has shown that even with this money many times they're unable to make much progress

Except his approach isn't "let's raise taxes", it's "let's actually fix education it's accessibility and here's how". Like I said, you can't gain something from nothing. A lackadaisical approach to actual issues facing the whole of the country will effect you.

Ipquarx · January 13, 2016, 11:52:29 PM

Quote from: Kaiiu� on January 13, 2016, 11:45:09 PM

except the solution to these issues isn't as simple as just "throw more money at them and it will all go away"
just because you might feel like these things are important enough to give away your hard earned money doesn't mean that i do. fixing education isn't as simple as throwing money at it like sanders thinks, and the government has shown that even with this money many times they're unable to make much progress

You do realize that with sanders you'll be taxed LESS right, that's like one of the most major points he parades around is that he's going to lower tax on the middle class and raise it on large corporations and the extremely wealthy.

And that's not his only course of action either, I suggest you actually take a look at what he wants to do.

Tayasaurus · January 13, 2016, 11:55:14 PM

Ipquarx · January 13, 2016, 11:57:01 PM

Quote from: Tayasaurus on January 13, 2016, 11:55:14 PM

Hasn't this claim been the front for many candidates for the past several years?

Not sure to be honest, I don't remember obama saying it, and I don't think any of the republicans do, but iirc hillary has that as well.

Tayasaurus · January 14, 2016, 12:00:02 AM

Kaiiu� · January 14, 2016, 12:00:18 AM

Quote from: ShadowsfeaR on January 13, 2016, 11:50:57 PM

Except his approach isn't "let's raise taxes", it's "let's actually fix education it's accessibility and here's how". Like I said, you can't gain something from nothing. A lackadaisical approach to actual issues facing the whole of the country will effect you.

his free college tuition plan is lazy and dumb as stuff. the way he has set it up is that 1/3 of it will be up to the states to figure out. that's straight up not happening in a lot of states, especially in the South. he claims to be fighting for the middle class but will raise our taxes. not to mention more people in college/getting a degree is detrimental to me.
he promises the world so he's a popular candidate, but once you sit and realize that most of what he says isn't happening he's no better than clinton, maybe even worse from what i'm reading on his tax proposals

Kaiiu� · January 14, 2016, 12:03:16 AM

Quote from: Ipquarx on January 13, 2016, 11:52:29 PM

You do realize that with sanders you'll be taxed LESS right, that's like one of the most major points he parades around is that he's going to lower tax on the middle class and raise it on large corporations and the extremely wealthy.

And that's not his only course of action either, I suggest you actually take a look at what he wants to do.

no i think you need to take a look. the simple solution to everything in the world isn't "uhh tax the rich" (which isn't always rich people anyways). for all that sanders is proposing he's going to have to raise the taxes on the middle class, that's straight up inevitable.

Ipquarx · January 14, 2016, 12:08:28 AM

Quote from: Kaiiu� on January 14, 2016, 12:03:16 AM

no i think you need to take a look. the simple solution to everything in the world isn't "uhh tax the rich" (which isn't always rich people anyways). for all that sanders is proposing he's going to have to raise the taxes on the middle class, that's straight up inevitable.

He hasn't said the solution to everything is just "tax the rich tax the rich etc etc", he's not claiming to be the solution to all the worlds problems and ailments. He's said it can help get things started in the right direction by making sure that everyone is paying their fair share, which as of now is not happening, and then using that money to fund things that will help the middle class. He's not insane, he's going to have it budgeted so it's not going to go overboard. He wouldn't raise taxes on the middle class so he could make programs to help the middle class, that makes no sense at all.

Unless you have hard evidence that raising taxes on the rich will somehow magically raise taxes on the middle class, I really don't see your point.

Kaiiu� · January 14, 2016, 12:19:23 AM

Quote from: Ipquarx on January 14, 2016, 12:08:28 AM

He hasn't said the solution to everything is just "tax the rich tax the rich etc etc", he's not claiming to be the solution to all the worlds problems and ailments. He's said it can help get things started in the right direction by making sure that everyone is paying their fair share, which as of now is not happening, and then using that money to fund things that will help the middle class. He's not insane, he's going to have it budgeted so it's not going to go overboard. He wouldn't raise taxes on the middle class so he could make programs to help the middle class, that makes no sense at all.

Unless you have hard evidence that raising taxes on the rich will somehow magically raise taxes on the middle class, I really don't see your point.

i dont think anyone disagrees with bernie when he talks about closing loopholes and raising the taxes on the rich (we'll see if that works)
where it falls apart is his proposals for healthcare and for college tuition. his plan (the little that he's released) has massive holes in it.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/01/12/the-big-mystery-around-bernie-sanders-plan-to-reduce-income-inequality/
the simple fact of the matter is that for his proposals to actually work, he's going to have to raise taxes on the middle class, now Bernie's a smart man, he knows this, but he's not going to tell you that while he's campaigning. there's way too many holes in his economic approach and people need to realize that.

Jubel · January 14, 2016, 12:22:43 AM

what kinda taxes do the middle class pay right now in your state

Kaiiu� · January 14, 2016, 12:30:20 AM

Quote from: Jubel on January 14, 2016, 12:22:43 AM

what kinda taxes do the middle class pay right now in your state

http://www.tax-brackets.org/alabamataxtable

Tayasaurus · January 14, 2016, 12:30:55 AM