Minecraft Megathread; yeah its update 1.12 big whoop what about it

[M]

Am I the only person that's really bothered by Bukkit?

When I played with the API I really liked it, but there's very few bukkit mods I've seen that actually change how you play aside from making you stick signs on loving everything. It seems to be almost entirely about grief protection and WorldEdit. Those are the only things I'd ever use Bukkit for.

But those don't actually contribute anything to gameplay. It's just metagaming. Wouldn't it be really nice if there was a protection mod that actually costed ingame materials and was interactive rather than just a command? Every bukkit mod just feels like a loving hack because nobody wants to make people install client mods, and yet for singleplayer loving nobody plays vanilla.

At the opposite extreme of my disliking things, there's Tekkit, which is basically every unnecessarily bloated mod all crammed together. If you need a reference guide to play you're loving doing it wrong. Sure, it's impressive when you make a machine that manufactures tools for you from the rawest of raw materials, but really you've just automated a process that takes up five seconds every ten minutes anyway. It's pointless.

Overall I just find myself disappointed in Minecraft multiplayer. Everyone's very concerned even on "survival" servers about protecting their stuff, but they do it by stuff that is extraneous to the actual game like sticking signs on chests or using a command to protect an area, which ruins any gameplay immersion (not talking about roleplay immersion) you had. It'd be much more fun if there were more immersive ways of doing these things, like locks for chests, banner claims for area protection and the like, and moreover when it comes to modding as a whole more focus on adding new and interesting mechanics that have some actual use rather than expanding on redstone systems in ways that nobody will ever use for any practical purpose in the game aside from automating already very simple processes.

Rant rant, rant rant rant. Furthermore, rantrantrantrantrant.

[Ad Bot]

[Spartan923]

yeah.. yeah I do ;-;

It was working earlier.. but it just sorta.. stopped

[Night Fox]

tekkit and technic aren't something I'd use
there are too many mods to keep up with, and they don't even fit well in a single theme

also, about the part about the guide
that's not a great point, because you need one for vanilla unless you've played for a while
which also applies to the mods

[Chrono]

Am I the only person that's really bothered by Bukkit?

When I played with the API I really liked it, but there's very few bukkit mods I've seen that actually change how you play aside from making you stick signs on loving everything. It seems to be almost entirely about grief protection and WorldEdit. Those are the only things I'd ever use Bukkit for.

But those don't actually contribute anything to gameplay. It's just metagaming. Wouldn't it be really nice if there was a protection mod that actually costed ingame materials and was interactive rather than just a command? Every bukkit mod just feels like a loving hack because nobody wants to make people install client mods, and yet for singleplayer loving nobody plays vanilla.

At the opposite extreme of my disliking things, there's Tekkit, which is basically every unnecessarily bloated mod all crammed together. If you need a reference guide to play you're loving doing it wrong. Sure, it's impressive when you make a machine that manufactures tools for you from the rawest of raw materials, but really you've just automated a process that takes up five seconds every ten minutes anyway. It's pointless.

Overall I just find myself disappointed in Minecraft multiplayer. Everyone's very concerned even on "survival" servers about protecting their stuff, but they do it by stuff that is extraneous to the actual game like sticking signs on chests or using a command to protect an area, which ruins any gameplay immersion (not talking about roleplay immersion) you had. It'd be much more fun if there were more immersive ways of doing these things, like locks for chests, banner claims for area protection and the like, and moreover when it comes to modding as a whole more focus on adding new and interesting mechanics that have some actual use rather than expanding on redstone systems in ways that nobody will ever use for any practical purpose in the game aside from automating already very simple processes.

Rant rant, rant rant rant. Furthermore, rantrantrantrantrant.

That's what I don't like about Spout. "We're opening ways to new mods not possible with Bukkit by having a client-side of the mod!"
Then I looked deeper. It's just more loving hacky work-arounds because they want it to work for vanilla clients. I want blocks that are actually new blocks, not just a new stone block that has side-features which people with the mod see different textures. I want a new block that people can join and see, like Blockland. forget the people running vanilla clients. If I want custom blocks and items, I want them done right. forget you Bukkit. forget you Spout. forget you Minecraft. What the forget is Tekkit?

[Regulith]

I'd enjoy the Willcraft server a lot more if it didn't crash every 15 minutes.

I've been able to reconnect within about 10-20 seconds but it looks like it's down for good now.

[Jacob 123456789]

What the forget is Tekkit?

Here, let me Google that for you

[Chrono]

Here, let me Google that for you

You're not supposed to answer, considering it was already described in the post I quoted.

[dkamm65]

Here, let me Google that for you

Irony.

[Daedalus]

tekkit/technic are fantastic mod packs, honestly.
they're really well combined and make for fun end-game stuff as well as the journey there.
faction servers can also be very fun when moderated correctly.

[Jacob 123456789]

Irony.

forget off, I thought it was an actual question.

[dkamm65]

forget off, I thought it was an actual question.

Not that. You gave him a lmgtfy link, implying he should Google something if he needs information instead of asking, on the same page where you asked for information that could be found via Google.

[Jacob 123456789]

oh

is it bad that I laughed

[MegaScientifical]

Am I the only person that's really bothered by Bukkit?

When I played with the API I really liked it, but there's very few bukkit mods I've seen that actually change how you play aside from making you stick signs on loving everything. It seems to be almost entirely about grief protection and WorldEdit. Those are the only things I'd ever use Bukkit for.

But those don't actually contribute anything to gameplay. It's just metagaming. Wouldn't it be really nice if there was a protection mod that actually costed ingame materials and was interactive rather than just a command? Every bukkit mod just feels like a loving hack because nobody wants to make people install client mods, and yet for singleplayer loving nobody plays vanilla.

M, they have held public discussion for inspiration, suggestion, and layout of the Mod API. They never said the Mod API would be so much like Bukkit as to warrant such statements. They even stated how no Bukkit mods would be compatible before they began - Because they know in the end it could include functionality of Bukkit but would be expanded much more with to community support.

Official Log (Meeting starts at 18:03): http://sbnc.khobbits.co.uk/log/logs/old/minecraftdev_%5B2012-06-30%5D.htm
Official Summary: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1puSEflHIqFNgSpoHUjr3esYTyYkifkMf0vQ6JDoaGmM/edit?pli=1

Read over these. I don't know their details, but I know they aren't going to let the Mod API be bullstuff. They opened to the community and all, they put themselves in an awkward position to screw us over.

[M]

M, they have held public discussion for inspiration, suggestion, and layout of the Mod API. They never said the Mod API would be so much like Bukkit as to warrant such statements. They even stated how no Bukkit mods would be compatible before they began - Because they know in the end it could include functionality of Bukkit but would be expanded much more with to community support.

Official Log (Meeting starts at 18:03): http://sbnc.khobbits.co.uk/log/logs/old/minecraftdev_%5B2012-06-30%5D.htm
Official Summary: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1puSEflHIqFNgSpoHUjr3esYTyYkifkMf0vQ6JDoaGmM/edit?pli=1

Read over these. I don't know their details, but I know they aren't going to let the Mod API be bullstuff. They opened to the community and all, they put themselves in an awkward position to screw us over.

I never said anything about the official API such as it may or may not at some point in the future be, in fact as far as I can tell I didn't say anything even implying a reference to any future modding APIs. I didn't even imply I dislike the team (which as I understand are also working on the official API) - only the mods people make for Bukkit and the attitude that it is the be all and end all of server choice.

The API it provides is the thing I like about Bukkit - it's very, very simple to get started with and as a serverside API is quite good. But as it's a serverside thing it has its limits before everything starts feeling like a stupid hack or something not actually part of the game, and people would rather develop for Bukkit because it's oh so good than develop actual client-server interacting mods. Perfect example is Movecraft vs the Zeppelin mod. Movecraft is using commands to be teleported in a stuffty simulation of actual movement, whereas the Zeppelin mod is interacting with the game world to effect the game world.

Mostly this is to retain vanilla compatibility, so there's a minimal entry barrier from wanting to play on a server and logging in - but excessive whitelist bullstuff often negates this positive and as a result of there being an assload of commands and weird ways to interact with things, the actual experience of playing on the server is worse as well.



Edit: Just finished reading the log of the API discussion. The discussion about "I'll still need to modify base classes" has resulted in a palm print on my forehead. I think some of the voiced people actually didn't understand the concept of an API properly, or the idea that they'd still be able to crack open the jar as before with regards to modifying base classes. I also think Flowerchild doesn't understand the concept of generic behaviours - his example that is supposedly "too unusual to warrant an API hook" was wolves producing dung which at its core is simply a scheduled AI behaviour, a logic check and an entity/block spawn. If the API didn't let me periodically do things or spawn entities it'd be pretty loving useless. YOU ARE NOT A STUPID PERSON, SO WHY ARE YOU SO STUPID?
And I can't believe in all the discussion of bandwidth nobody brought up client caching. It's the most obvious possible solution that would yield the best results with the least effort - instead of asking the server for a full chunk, if you have that chunk position saved on disk, tell the server when your disk copy was last updated then just send the new chunk if their timestamp is older than the chunk's last update timestamp. Requires one int per 16^3 blocks with cubic chunks and one int comparison to check - not a big overhead.

[fred da kiko]

There needs to be a multiplayer mod that makes combat not stuff.