"No Justice No Tree / #ShutItDown" in NYC (Eric Garner Protests)

[dudeman162]

The only reason you're thinking that is because you're jumping to conclusions. The chokehold was not intended to kill, it was intended to subdue, even if it was against policy. Obviously that policy was broken, and in my opinion the officer should be charged for that, but he had no idea that doing so would cause the man to suffocate due to asthma.

And in case you're wondering, that does not count as murder. It might count as manslaughter, or more likely negligent death. (Basically causing an injury to someone that leads to death due to criminal negligence, which in this case was ignoring protocol)

But he wasn't even being aggressive when the cop 'subdued' him.

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[Harm94]

But he wasn't even being aggressive when the cop 'subdued' him.

being Aggressive=/=resisting

[Kimon²]

being Aggressive=/=resisting

i'd say the only case a chokehold would be necessary was if eric garner physically attacked another officer, but it's against policy so there is still very little justification for doing it.

[Ipquarx]

But he wasn't even being aggressive when the cop 'subdued' him.

I never said he was being aggressive. I never said the force was justified. I'm saying the officer did not intend to kill the man, just to get him down on the ground so he could be arrested. As to why he used a chokehold when that's not allowed, it's completely possible he just forgot. When all the adrenaline is pumping through you you can quite easily forget little things like that. Unfortunately his negligence caused the death of a person. Honestly, I'm not sure what should be done because I don't have enough information, so I'm going to refrain from saying "He's guilty!" or "He's innocent!"

[Aces]

Police don't have the luxury to forget protocol though.

And no the adrenaline-induced panic excuse is bullstuff because no action done by Garner was enough to cause an adrenaline rush.

[Ipquarx]

Police don't have the luxury to forget protocol though.

And no the adrenaline-induced panic excuse is bullstuff because no action done by Garner was enough to cause an adrenaline rush.

I never said the force was justified.

Really all you're trying to do is find every way possible that he's guilty. It's called the anchoring effect. If you take a step back and try to take into account only the proven facts about human nature and the scenario and not speculation, then you can come to a rational conclusion.

[Aces]

But your explanation (or rather excuse) was entirely wrong though.

[Nonnel]

No it's illegal. He was not even threatening the police officers with violence.

Against policy*
You don't have to resist violently. He resisted, so they got him on the ground to arrest him.

[Aces]

Against policy*
You don't have to resist violently. He resisted, so they got him on the ground to arrest him.

Intentions do  not excuse what actually occurs. It was a homicide.
http://civilrights.findlaw.com/civil-rights-overview/police-misconduct-and-civil-rights.html
"The officer's intentions or motivations are not controlling. If the amount of force was reasonable, it doesn't matter that the officer's intentions were bad. But the reverse is also true: if the officer had good intentions, but used unreasonable force, the excessive force claim will not be dismissed."

Using a move that is "against policy" is definitely excessive force as agreed upon by the NYPD. It is against policy for a reason.

[Ipquarx]

It was a homicide.

homicide is the deliberate and unlawful killing of one person by another; murder.

[Aces]

homicide is the deliberate and unlawful killing of one person by another; murder.

No it's not. Homicides do not have to be deliberate. It's a classification of death, just like Self Delete or natural causes.
http://time.com/3618279/eric-garner-chokehold-crime-staten-island-daniel-pantaleo/

Homicide is literally, "dying because of someone else"

[Gumba Jonny]

where was the ref to break up the illegal chokehold and give the other guy points?

[$trinick]

Legally, homicide is deliberate. Manslaughter is not.

[Aces]

Legally, homicide is deliberate. Manslaughter is not.

And it was (or should have been) negligent manslaughter

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Negligent+manslaughter

[dudeman162]

And it was (or should have been) negligent manslaughter

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Negligent+manslaughter

Nah, the cop did nothing wrong. He had every right to 'subdue' a man who wasn't even aggressive enough to justify getting a loving chokehold that's against policy.