Author Topic: how do you feel about transgender people?  (Read 15694 times)

Surgery isn't mutilation. It's carefully supervised in a medical setting. And removing limbs is a hindrance no matter how you look at it;

you can surgically mutilate somebody. this whole statement is stuff because circumcision, both male and female, happens in a surgical setting yet is clearly genital mutilation.

modifying somebody's genitalia is not going to impede their movement assuming the procedure doesn't go wrong.

it makes them kill themselves later in life. that is arguably worse.

Occam's razor says the horrible treatment and public opinion of transgenders is a more likely source of depression, not the mental turmoil you've made up and attributed to transgenders.

so youre saying, IAW occam's razor, that its more likely that mentally sick people are not depressed because of their illness, but because normal people think their post-transformation bodies are unnerving? i grew up in the deep south, in the bible belt, and this generation is pretty much completely indifferent to transloveualism. even with my opinion on the issue, i still have been nothing but polite to the transloveuals ive run into and i've treated them like i would anyone else. in my experience, even people who are outright disgusted by bearded transloveual 'women' will only express their views in private.

"family values" and "transsphobia" are extremely unpopular and as such, are relatively rare. blaming other people for your mistakes and your stuffty situation, however, is extremely popular. マホー

it makes them kill themselves later in life. that is arguably worse.
Yeah that's pretty bad assuming it happens. I'm not sure you can always pin suicide on the surgery though, it likely stems from the initial body dysmorphia. Though we're both making assumptions now, which will get nowhere.

so youre saying, IAW occam's razor, that its more likely that mentally sick people are not depressed because of their illness, but because normal people think their post-transformation bodies are unnerving?
I'm sure the depression that comes with this condition has led to suicides, but I would wager social rejection and a general public disdain for transgenders really makes the whole situation far worse. I'm not transgendered, so this metaphor will fall short, but I have physical flaws that I'm uncomfortable with but I only feel super bad about them when other people make a mockery of it. I don't necessarily think the condition itself is the chief source of suicides, more the way society is handling it. Maybe this is something a survey could shed more light on.

i grew up in the deep south, in the bible belt, and this generation is pretty much completely indifferent to transloveualism. even with my opinion on the issue, i still have been nothing but polite to the transloveuals ive run into and i've treated them like i would anyone else. in my experience, even people who are outright disgusted by bearded transloveual 'women' will only express their views in private.

"family values" and "transsphobia" are extremely unpopular and as such, are relatively rare. blaming other people for your mistakes and your stuffty situation, however, is extremely popular. マホー

It's very good that you're polite. Though I have a lot of family in the American south, and I have to say I've found quite the opposite. There is outright family values and common sense on a daily basis but it's not very noticeable because, like you said, it's mostly conducted behind closed doors. It's when we find this social issue being reviewed in a political setting that that sort of hush-hush prejudice shows itself.

"family values" and "transsphobia" are extremely unpopular and as such, are relatively rare


hard to pin down an exact number of hateful individuals, but hate crimes are a good start.

Yeah that's pretty bad assuming it happens. I'm not sure you can always pin suicide on the surgery though, it likely stems from the initial body dysmorphia.

Which is why the dysphoria needs to be treated, not encouraged. You don't tell schizophrenics that the voices they hear are real people.

It's very good that you're polite. Though I have a lot of family in the American south, and I have to say I've found quite the opposite. There is outright family values and common sense on a daily basis but it's not very noticeable because, like you said, it's mostly conducted behind closed doors. It's when we find this social issue being reviewed in a political setting that that sort of hush-hush prejudice shows itself.

saying that family values/common sense is "outright" and at the same time "not very noticeable" and "conducted behind closed doors" is a complete contradiction, you realize that right? マホー

[i mg]http://i.imgur.com/kiSonVi.png[/img]
[im g]https://www.fbi.gov/image-repository/hate-in-2015.jpg/@@images/image/large[/img]
hard to pin down an exact number of hateful individuals, but hate crimes are a good start.

so a whopping 1.7% of the 5818 incidents were due to transloveualism, versus the 59.2% that were due to race. thats about 99 transloveual hate crimes versus 3444 racially-motivated hate crimes in a country of almost 391 million people. its almost completely negligible.

fuqq it stocking wins, lynch the trans

bigotry is always stigmatized, but that doesn't mean bigots don't make a difference. they still vote, run for office, and make policy decisions for us

Which is why the dysphoria needs to be treated, not encouraged. You don't tell schizophrenics that the voices they hear are real people.
from a purely clinical standpoint, HRT and other treatments in combination with therapy is treatment of gender dysphoria. calling this "encouragement" delegitimizes the patient's condition and is just as helpful a perspective as telling someone with clinical depression that it's all in their head/telling them things are okay/to just get over it. these are actual, diagnosable medical conditions because they have a real negative impact on someone's regular mental function. to say that patients with gender dysphoria are simply delusional is not only factually incorrect, it's also at the very least in poor taste, and almost certainly insensitive.

to say that patients with gender dysphoria are simply delusional is not only factually incorrect, it's also at the very least in poor taste, and almost certainly insensitive.

this has been the rhetoric of pretty much every liberal argument for the past decade.

it starts by saying something completely wrong

patients with gender dysphoria are simply delusional is factually incorrect

and then trying dissuade an argument by talking about how facts hurt peoples' feelings. your gender is determined by your genes, not your feelings or perceptions. if your perceptions of reality do not match actual reality, then you are by definition delusional.



That aside, this statement is so baffling to me that I had to re-read it a few times because I thought I was misinterpreting it.

calling this "encouragement" delegitimizes the patient's condition and is just as helpful a perspective as telling someone with clinical depression that it's all in their head/telling them things are okay/to just get over it.

You are trying to compare abating their mental illness to telling depressed people "it's all in their head." I'll be clear and concise so that readers don't get lost while I try to untangle this massive ball of stupidty.

Telling depressed people that it's "in their head" is basically how we treat depression. People who are depressed think that they are depressed for a reason: nobody loves them, they're worthless, their family would be better off without them, etc. More often than not, it's a clinical condition and we treat it with medicine and therapy. We say, "you aren't worthless, you're feeling this way because you're sick, it's all in your head." If they say, "the world would be better off if I just killed myself," we don't smile and hand them a loaded gun. There are psychological techniques that doctors have developed to help people with depression lead normal, productive lives.

This isn't the case with patients who are gender dysphoric. A genetically-male patient says "I feel like I was born a girl," and the doctor says "you're right, you ARE a girl." The patient says, "I feel like life would be better if I got my richard cut off," and the doctor says "you're right, life would be better if you cut your richard off!" This is a strange case of medical resources helping to maintain an illness rather than treating it. Again, it'd be like a doctor telling a depression patient that "your family actually DOES hate you and your parents divorce actually IS your fault."

Telling them that it's in their head is acknowledging that it's a mental illness that needs to be treated. The fact that you are so incapable of seeing that through the blinders of social justice is nauseating. マホー
« Last Edit: January 01, 2017, 01:34:38 PM by Stocking »

Telling depressed people that it's "in their head" is basically how we treat depression. People who are depressed think that they are depressed for a reason: nobody loves them, they're worthless, their family would be better off without them, etc. More often than not, it's a clinical condition and we treat it with medicine and therapy. We say, "you aren't worthless, you're feeling this way because you're sick, it's all in your head." There are psychological techniques that doctors have developed to help people with depression lead normal, productive lives.
but that's the initial reasoning. depression is caused by a billion different things, the most common ranging from: personal failures, financial issues and social issues.
the trick to solving depression is to legit get them to resolve that underlying problem. sometimes they over exaggerate minor issues which can lead to such an issue. you don't tell them it's in their head but rather, help them fix their stuff to the best of your abilities. which is also why treating depression in the US has major issues ($$$ related)
if you're charging someone who doesn't really have all that much money for therapy and medicine, don't be surprised if he doesn't go and get that therapy and medicine. depression isnt as simple as telling them its in its head in some super glorified way, trust me, we wish it was.
If they say, "the world would be better off if I just killed myself," we don't smile and hand them a loaded gun.
no stuff

This isn't the case with patients who are gender dysphoric. A genetically-male patient says "I feel like I was born a girl," and the doctor says "you're right, you ARE a girl." The patient says, "I feel like life would be better if I got my richard cut off," and the doctor says "you're right, life would be better if you cut your richard off!" This is a strange case of medical resources helping to maintain an illness rather than treating it. Again, it'd be like a doctor telling a depression patient that "your family actually DOES hate you and your parents divorce actually IS your fault."

except there's one major problem, at least in the US: there's gatekeeping out the ass that you would honestly think that they guard the treatment like they do the white house.

seriously we loving try it all before actually going through that.
you name it, therapy, long ass waits, trying medicine even.

and they will desire it through all of that.
they get depressed when they didnt know their appointment and you say it will be months maybe even a year before they can get one. then once they pass all the checks they start feeling a bit better and it just goes up until they actually do it.

before we go any further, i'd like to clarify something: HRT is reversible, SRS (the actual richard mutilation) is not.
we wait till they're late HRT (2-3 years) before they even have a chance to pull off SRS. mostly because gatekeeping.
most transgender people actually choose not to do SRS
and to go further: most transgender people who commit suicide usually do it during early-mid HRT, so it's obviously not the fact that it's irreversible causing it, it's mostly believed that harassment (due to common sense or something) causes this, but it obviously isn't the only reason and it can't be recorded through that god awful hate crime statistic solely because it's harassment, not loving assault.

i feel bad for them, they need help. serious mental issues there. if i recall, most end up killing themselves.


I honestly think it's kind of dumb but at the same time I really don't care about it.

Occam's razor says the horrible treatment and public opinion of transgenders is a more likely source of depression,

The same public opinion that made a transmission woman of the year

The last time a population had this high a suicide rate was Jews living under the national socialists. And come to think of it, we aren't mass murdering transmissions

The same public opinion that made a transmission woman of the year

The last time a population had this high a suicide rate was Jews living under the national socialists. And come to think of it, we aren't mass murdering transmissions
A magazine doesn't reflect public opinion. It's just what the publishers think will sell units.

I honestly think it's kind of dumb but at the same time I really don't care about it.
yeah same

this has been the rhetoric of pretty much every liberal argument for the past decade.

it starts by saying something completely wrong
This warrants a little bit of a blast-to-the-past for all the people in this thread that haven't been on the forums since 2012.

For those who aren't aware, back in 2012, a user named Dusty12 outed herself as a trans woman on the forums. Stocking responded with this:

A freak? A joke? A disappointment?

It must be terrible to know that you'll forever be that family member that the rest just, don't talk about. An eternal embarrassment. A stain. You shame your family and make them subjects of ridicule, what respectable people could rear a young man so poorly, that he makes himself a eunuch? It's laughable almost, and it sort of makes me appreciate the things I take for granted.

I've had guys lust after me for as long as I can remember. I've fallen in love, and I've made love in more intimate ways than you are biologically incapable of experiencing. You'll never have a life like mine, even though you paid to have your body deformed and wrought into an uncanny, pitiful mockery of my natural form. You're forever going to be delegated to special interestists and the most insecure and desperate of men. Your life is over, the constant rejection and alienation you've experienced all your life will only increase tenfold in light of your operation.

The hatred you've always had for yourself will be magnified, when you find that people can no longer love something so repulsive. Soon, maybe even now, you will find yourself repulsive as well. There's no going back.

You will never be a man. You will never be a woman.

You will never matter to anybody.

User was banned for this post
« Last Edit: January 01, 2017, 04:46:53 PM by SeventhSandwich »